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The following is the transcript of my interview with Glen Van Peski, Founder of Gossamer Gear, and Author of the new book “take less. do more.”  The Interview was LIVE on August 27, 2024.  I was pretty starstruck as GVP is known as the “Legend.”  He is the guy who started the ultralight revolution.  He paved the way for thousands of backpackers to be able to hike long distances while not having to carry 50 plus lbs of gear on their backs.  The result was a much more pleasurable and enjoyable experience.

Joey – Hey, everyone. We are live on the Overland podcast, all things outdoors and Overland, walking, whatever you want to do. That’s what we do. And I am very excited to talk to. I’m kind of starstruck right now. I really am. I tell you what. Um, when, Francesca reached out to me and asked me if I would be glad to have you on… I had to, I had to take a breath a minute. It was, it was pretty amazing. It was pretty amazing time. I have, I followed you for a while, a huge fan and, um, and to be able to get your book and read it, and get to know a little bit more about you. That’s been a pleasant thing. So, Glen, thank you for joining us on the show.

Glen – Super delighted for you to be here.

Joey – And I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to join us. Really do.

Glen – My pleasure. I always enjoy meeting new people, and that is the one thing. As my wife says, I’m a man of few words, so the podcasts have been a stretch for me. Oh, yeah? Yeah, especially a live is like, yeah, that’s exciting to me. But I’ve made so many new friends through the podcast, so I’m grateful for that, and I’m grateful to be here with you.

Joey – Well, it’s, it’s a great day that we live in with the technology and be able to spread the word, especially when you’ve got a new book out, you know, in the old days, you’d have to send out things through mail and, uh, cold call people, but now you’ve got the internet. You can get the word out, do podcasts, and got a great website. It’s good. It’s easy to get the words out without having to do a whole lot of talking. The podcast is a new thing. I’ve been doing it for about four years now, and we’re on season seven, and It’s been a joy. I’ve been able to meet quite a few people as well doing this. Now, you’ve recently returned from a trip to Iceland. How was that?

Glen – That was awesome. This was a trip put on by John Mackey, co-founder of Whole Foods Market and the guy who rescued Gossamer Gear. And he likes to, he’s obviously got, he’s wealthy and he likes to spend time with his friends, likes to spend time hiking with his friends. And so, he plans trips and invites his friends and all you have to do is get yourself there and everything else is covered. So, it’s, it’s great. It’s a great group of people. A lot of the people we knew before, uh, this trip was split into two kinds of different trips. John’s a very avid hiker, backpacker, very light and very, um, fast hiker, a little less fast than he was years ago, but, uh, he’s, he’s a solid hiker. He got a lot of miles. Um, I think he’s working on his third time through the Appalachian trail. Wow. And, so this was, he has different sets of friends, obviously. There are friends that can go out and hike all day and sleep in the dirt. And then there’s other friends that, you know, want to stay in a hotel with a bed and things like that, but don’t mind hiking during the day. So, this was actually two different trips. The first one was a hike on the Landmannalaigar trek in Iceland. And then most of those people went home and the kind of hotel in based people showed up. And then we did kind of a week of day hikes exploring the sites. So, I was there for both. So that was nice.

Joey – Excellent. How did you how did you like the country? Was that your first time there?

Glen – It was our first time there, you know, other than sitting in the airport. Yeah. But don’t see much in the airport. So, I’ve done that myself. But it was it was interesting. Now, our guides said that it was an unusual, unusual summer. So, I have to take their word for it. Never been to Iceland in the summer. I was noticing, you know, when we’re, when you’re someplace and you’re watching all the tourist videos on TVs, it’s like, how did they get that shot? It’s like, if there’s a sunny day, does everyone get the drones out and you get all this footage and it’s good for the rest of the year? Our guide said, and I’m not gonna pretend to, I’m not going to try his accent, but he said, Glenn, we have three kinds of weather in Iceland. He says, we have cold, we have wind, we have rain. He says, any day that you only have two out of three, that’s a good day. And we had, so I was kidding him one day. I was telling him, so Solveig, is it true that if there’s an actual day that we have no rain at any time during the day that we get a full refund on that day? And he says, certainly, of course, yes.

Joey – Wow. He would not have had to pay out a refund. Oh, my goodness. That’s, well, the, I don’t know where they go to get some of the pictures and videos, but it’s a beautiful country. And my wife and I have talked about going there. That’s on our list. The Faroe Islands are on our list. I know that’s up there pretty close to there, but I’ve never seen anything in that area of the world. And that’s definitely where I want to go. So, when I saw that John had posted some pictures on his Instagram, that was really neat to be able to see that. Now, would you want to give a little introduction of yourself? Not everybody that’s listening may know the mayor of Lolo Drive. So, they may want to get a little background on you to find out a little bit more about you.

Glen – Sure. I’m a sixty-six-year-old engineer. I live in Bend, Oregon, with my wife of over forty years, Francie, two grown sons. I. had a career in land development engineering my whole life. Um, and accidentally along the way started a backpacking company, Gossamer gear, um, that I’m still involved with, uh, to this day. And, um, yeah, I spend my time now, you know, split between the, Between Gossamer Gear, we do a lot of traveling both abroad and in our Sprinter van, our Winnebago Revel domestically. If we could figure out a way to get him overseas in some kind of cost-efficient manner, we would definitely have some on the list. No kidding. Yeah. And, um, yeah, right now doing podcasts and, you know, spreading the word about the book. Oh yeah. I recently wrote a book. I forgot about that. Recently wrote a book. Yeah. And I wash dishes in my spare time at the local bakery.

Joey – Saw that. Yeah, you got a great story. Several different stories that involve the bakery. I’ve got to get up there just to eat one of the things you talk about that’s world famous there.

Glen – Joey, get yourself here. You can stay here at the house. We can do some hiking and I will buy you an ocean roll at Sparrow Bakery.

Joey – Well, the way you describe it, I could almost taste it. I’m a foodie. I’m a huge foodie. You know, the young, when, when we were younger and traveled, it was all about getting the souvenirs. You know, you would get the Mickey Mouse or the stuff, this or the stuff that, but the older I get when we travel, my souvenirs are food. I like the local food. And that seems to be, we did everything that we could to put a refrigerator in our Subaru so that that way we could buy as much food locally that we can’t get it home and bring it back home with us. And, uh, that’s, that’s just our thing. So, when you started out, that was right close to the beginning of the book. You caught me right off the bat. You talked about the ocean roll. I said, I got to have one of those. and I …

Glen – you know I would I would mail some to you but it’s just wouldn’t be the same would it wouldn’t be the same I mean you have to spend fifty bucks to send them you know second day and then they’re just then they’re like day old I mean when you come here, I’ll get you one and then I’ll ask them to warm it up because that’s always just adds that little extra bit to it.

Joey – I can’t imagine well I want to talk about a few highlights in your book without giving the whole book away. And the reason for that is I won’t read the book. We could talk about it and the people would say, okay, I’ve got everything about it. I’ve got the cliff notes. I don’t need to read it, but I don’t want to do that. I want to make people want to read this book. And there’s no reason not to. There’s plenty of ways to get it. I have read it twice now in two weeks and listened to it twice on Audible. It’s on audible. And the way that my job works is I spend a lot of time in a vehicle. And so, I’m able to listen to audio books a lot. And I love doing that. It takes up time. It keeps me away from the news where I don’t have to listen to the news because that is ever so depressing. And when I met my wife. she got me to reading books again. And it got me away from watching funny videos on social media all the time and taking up my time doing things that don’t matter. I’ve become a reader. And when I received your book a couple weeks ago, it kind of caught me off guard. I’ll just tell you that. I have an affinity with hiking books, backpacking books. I watch a lot of YouTube with hiking, packing, and backpacking just because… it shows me the places that I want to go. It helps me make my list. And, and when I received your book, I thought, okay, this is going to be another backpacking book. Somebody that’s been on a trail or something, and it’s going to describe the trail. I’ve listened to probably twenty or thirty Appalachian Trail books. And when I got done, I was like, eh, that’s okay. But your book is was completely different not anywhere close to what I was expecting it’s a collection of stories that make me think about my life and my stories and how I can be a better person or improve myself. And so instead of it being a regular, maybe self-help book, it is something that appeals to me because it’s a topic that I love. And it completely caught me off guard. And when my wife and I would be sitting on the front porch, I’d be telling her this story and you got, you know, I just tell her this story about you know, you’re an eighteen-year-old and you’re going bikepacking across the country and you run into these people and there’s this story about them cooking you breakfast and it totally changed your life and that you tell that story everywhere you go. And she’s like, that’s cool. And it was one morning I had her bawling. I mean, I just had her just in tears. And now in order to do the podcast and be able to bring the book in here so I could show people that I actually have the book, I had to get it away from her because she’s reading it now. She’s already halfway done with it. So, it was completely different. I want to talk about you, your life, your story without giving the book away, because I believe that this is a book that people need to read. And because it’s totally impacted my life. And I believe it’s it would anyone who reads it. And I think they should read it.

Glen – Well, you know, that’s my hope that as I, you know, worked for probably almost fifty years now, if you count starting with the cross-country bicycle trek in nineteen seventy-six, I’ve worked to reduce my base pack weight, you know, all my gear without food and water to it’s usually under five pounds. I’ve done under three pounds, but typically I’m under five pounds of gear. And, you know, being an engineer helps in that because I tend to kind of think that way. But somewhere along the line, I realized that the lessons that I learned through taking less gear into the wilderness you know, also had applications to life in general. And some of the things I learned on the trail helped me navigate life better when I wasn’t on the trail. And so I was, you know, the book is trying to, trying to capture those using the trail stories as jumping off points, but then making the application to everyday life. And you, you did that in a, in a very, very awesome way.

Joey – Now, well, before we get into that, I want to talk a little bit more about you personally, because this part is for me. Okay, everybody who else is listening, this is for me, because I want to get to know you a little bit better. You love languages, French, Italian, German, Japanese. When did you discover your love for languages?

Glen – Well, in high school, I was taking French, which is still the language I know the most of, although by no means fluent. And I was taking Latin, which I really enjoyed. The thing I enjoyed about Latin was reading something that someone wrote. thousands of years ago in the language they wrote it. And I was like, hey, you can read the Bible, and it was written thousands of years ago, but it’s been translated. So I was like, eh, I mean, it’s great, but it’s not the same as just reading those words that were written you know I don’t know I don’t know why I got a kick out of that I took classical Greek briefly and German briefly I think I had to drop out of German it was too much going on but I don’t know I just I liked languages when in high school we did an exchange program and we went to I lived at someone’s house for a week, you know, high school or there, and we’re still in touch, you know, thanks to the internet. And I just, I love being in another culture and being able to speak to them in their language. I don’t know. I don’t know why that’s such a kick, but it’s just a connection point. And that does make you connect with people that much on a completely different level.

Joey – You know, my wife and I have talked about doing a hike over in France. And it’s a pilgrimage. And, you know, France, Spain. And we’ve talked about learning a little bit more of the Spain, Spanish culture. uh in order to be able to communicate with them and I don’t have that gift um I’ve had to take language I took French in in high school I did okay I struggled a little bit uh I went into ministry actually for a while I was a college minister I wanted to be a professor a bible professor like my dad is I wanted to follow my dad I wanted my dream was to move into his office when he retired and they wouldn’t even have to change the nameplate you know and But he has this doctorate in biblical languages where he had to master twelve. So, you know, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Coptic, all those. German, he had to have German because of Martin Luther and different things like that. And so, I had to take koine Greek, four semesters koine Greek. I had to take two semesters of Hebrew. And I struggled. I struggled. I do not have that gift. And I wish I did. I guess I need to get on Babel. Everybody says get on Babel. You can learn anything on Babel.

Glen – I don’t have that gift either. I just like languages. I definitely do not have that gift. Oh, that’s great. I love it. You roast your own coffee in a cast iron skillet. Now, cast iron is one of my loves. And you learn this from Heather Anderson, Anish. I followed her, listened to several of her books. What an amazing woman. She’s a beast in a good way.

Joey – Yeah. And listening to her doing FKTs on the Appalachian Trail and different things. It was every time I listened to one of our books at the end of a chapter, I was out of breath. I mean, just completely out of breath because I was holding my breath the whole time. She’s just amazing. But how did how did you meet her? And that translate into roasting your own coffee?

Glen – Well, accidentally starting the gear company kind of put me in the world of through hikers and people doing things like that. And so, I knew her. I don’t know if she was ever a trail ambassador for us or not. I probably should know that.

Joey – she is now

Glen – okay yeah if you’re into hiking if you’re into hiking you know Anish I mean yeah just an amazing story of kind of changing the trajectory of her life um and so she was doing her I think it was the calendar FKT through Oregon. But they took twenty-four hours to sleep in our house, do laundry and then, you know, get back on the trail, which is just it was an honor. And she had time to, you know, she talked about a. Previous boyfriend, I think, you know, being taught how to watching some Ethiopians roast coffee just over a fire. And so, I’ve done it ever since. And boy, if you like coffee and especially you like a cast iron, it’s like you start roasting your own coffee.

Joey – I got a I got a pretty good collection. I really need to figure this out because I am a huge coffee man. In fact, I’ve got I’ve got my coffee with me right here, because I, you know, I’m on my fourth cup today.

Glen – So, you’ll laugh for our, for our overlanding. Well, you know, our, our boondocking and Wally are, are Winnebago Revel. I used to just do instant. know when it was okay and it was you know I’ve tried a bunch every time someone says oh this one’s really good so now, I actually have a mocha pot because I love Italy and then I’ve got a like hand grinder and then I roast beans on the oven on the stove right before we leave and then seal them up so every morning When we’re out in the middle of the woods, I take some beans, grind them up, make the coffee in the milk pot. And it’s, it’s amazing. It’s about as fresh as you can, as you can get. So, we’ll get you, we’ll get you roasting coffee.

Joey – That is so neat. Anything that you can do from scratch fascinates me. And to be able to roast coffee in a cast iron skillet, that just kind of blows my mind a little bit. So, I’m totally into that.

Glen – Sounds like I need to send you some sourdough starter too.

Joey – Well, and that was the next thing. You love bread. Apparently, you have an affinity for sourdough bread. And I’ve seen lots of pictures on your Instagram about you just busting out the loaves of bread. And that fascinates me.

Glen – You know bread is kind of like coffee it’s once you’ve had it fresh it’s like it’s really hard to go to the store and buy some you know like I don’t people say hey let’s get together for coffee and it’s like okay you know I get it but it’s like I’m not going to like their coffee as good as Michael yeah true that’s true and bread yeah once you get used to fresh bread um and you get in a rhythm of you know you can make it every three or four days it’s just pretty nice

Joey – Yeah, I grew up on homemade cornbread. Okay. You know, in the South, we had cornbread and beans probably, I don’t know, twice a week. But as far as my family making homemade bread, it just didn’t happen. So, I’ve done it once and made homemade biscuits, different things like that. And for somebody who grew up on… ham sandwiches and Spam sandwiches and, you know, spam and macaroni and cheese for you to say that you’ve only had one loaf of white bread in your whole life. Uh, that’s, that’s unreal to me. I can’t even fathom that.

Glen – I grew up on homemade whole wheat bread. My mom made six loaves at a time, put them in the freezer. I hated it. I mean, I didn’t, you know, I love the wonder bread when I could sneak over to a friend’s house and get some of that action, but yeah, that didn’t happen very often.

Joey – I love how, uh, you’ve taken your, what do you call the take less, do more? Do you call that your life’s motto? What do you call that?

Glen – A tagline, I guess. I don’t know. I have a list on my iPhone called tattoos. I don’t have any tattoos on my body because it’d be a really expensive divorce. Yeah. But there are things, you know, it’s a short list. Things like, if I was going to get a tattoo, this would be kind of in the running. And take less, do more is on that list.

Joey – I love how even on, and if you hadn’t pointed it out to me, I would have never noticed, but it doesn’t have any capital letters. Just because you say it uses less ink.

Glen – Yeah. It’s about you not getting any benefit from the capitals. I mean, it doesn’t, the meaning is unimpaired by lowercase. And so that’s kind of, you know, what’s the minimum amount of need? What’s the, what are the important things in life? And at least for the title of the book, capitals were not one of them.

Joey – True. Well, I love how you’ve taken something that originally applied to backpacking and you applied it to your personal life. And you talk about in your book, when you hit the trail, you leave behind the insect like annoyances. And but you also leave behind the things that you enjoy, like the comforts of home. So how do you how do you believe in this take less do more when you get away from the nuisances but also the joys of life. How does that help you enrich your life how does that make your life better?

Glen – Well, it gives you in a couple of ways. One, when you’re out there, um, not having the emails and all the notifications and you know, you have no cell service and you can’t do anything on your to do list anyway. So, you know, after about three days you stop thinking about it and you just become present and, and You’ve got all day to let your mind wander and think about things that we don’t get to think about day to day. You know, we’re thinking about like stuff I got to do and I got to see so-and-so. Yeah, I got to get that out and I got to connect with so-and-so. And, you know, we’re just we’re thinking about our to do list, even when we’re not working on our to do list. And out in the wilderness, like you’re not even thinking about your to do list because you can’t do anything on it. So, it doesn’t matter.

Joey – True. So true. You just become present. And that’s so hard.

Glen – So hard. You know, that allows that getting your mind into that soft focus allows inspiration to strike. I know John Mackey, when he would go, even when he was CEO of Whole Foods, he would leave on you know six weeks through hiking and his executive team was always nervous when he came back because having that much time hiking alone every day, he would get clarity on something like hmm I remember he told me once he came back and he realized like I how can we have people working at Whole Foods that like smoke and they’re overweight, they don’t exercise and eat crappy food. He’s like, that’s not right. And so, he comes back and I don’t know what the corporate initiative was, but they’re always a little nervous when he came back. What did he realize on this hike? So that’s what it allows you. But being without the conveniences, the potable water and hot water and a soft bed, um central heating or air conditioning in your case um you know means it gives you a new appreciation for that because our senses are dull to that in everyday life I mean we take that for granted in this country I mean true people in plenty of the world you know would look at the way we live and go I mean they’re we’re unbelievably wealthy yeah I mean inconceivably wealthy to most people in the world um but it’s just it’s the water we swim in basically on a day-to-day basis you know we’re upset if we have to wait an extra cycle at the traffic signal or, you know, not thinking about, wait, I got a car to take me someplace. Right. Um, I had a situation recently. I was, I don’t know if Francie and I were driving somewhere and we’re, I don’t remember where we’re going errands or something. And I’m going down a street here and, it’s like really blocked up, which is rare. I don’t have time for this. So, I made a hard left and then to the parallel street turned right and it was closed. And it’s like, oh, my gosh, that’s why all the blockage was there. And now I’m like, I lost my place in line. Now I’m right. And I was really getting upset. And then I thought, wait a minute, just. you’re in a car, a nice car. You got this beautiful woman by your side and you’re retired. You know, it’s like, you’re not late for an appointment. It doesn’t matter. You know, enjoy the ride. It was just like, take a breath. But in day-to-day life, it’s so easy to get caught up in the, ah, this, this is inconvenient and it’s annoying. And so, plenty of time sleeping on the dirt and dealing with insects and rain and cold gives you a new appreciation for that stuff.

Joey – Totally agree. Totally agree. When you do without, you become appreciative of what you have. And your ultralight backpacking philosophy to have perspective on our lives, to see clearly what is truly needed and to pack light so we are free to do more. Now in the day that we live in, it’s a pretty popular belief that the one with the most toys wins. But you have created on your phone a list where you actually deny yourself things in order to be able to do more. And you’ve talked about other people who have lists. They call them different things. But… Denying yourself certain things in order to make you appreciative of what you have is a concept that most people would never understand. And being able to make a list of things, okay, these are the things I want. And you talk in the book about a person that gives themselves two things a year. You know, they deny themselves. And I have that same list. You know, I have Amazon cart that almost has like a million dollars’ worth of stuff on it. And I go back and look, and if I leave it there for a certain amount of time, I go back months later and I’m like, why did I even put that on there? I didn’t need that. And then I delete it out of my cart and add something else because I go through phases. I have to have this. But that’s a concept that most people can’t even compute these days, especially with kids. Because the only time that they know is now. And when they want something, they want it now. And if you don’t give it to them, well, that’s a travesty. And so denying ourselves things in order to appreciate what we have, that is a concept that is amazing to me. And most people don’t get it. Most people don’t get it.

Glen – Yeah, I think part of it is, you know, part of it is appreciating what you have. But I think some of it is just to kind of push back, I guess, against, I mean, it’s so easy for us to instantly have anything we want. You know, we see… Yeah, I was just but now I just got something from Garage Grown Gear, you know, and I and they had some they get a lot of my alpha like hoodie or hats. And I go, well, the hat I have now is like one ounce. I bet these. or like half ounce, you know, it’s like, and then it’s like, well, this is stupid. It’s like, so it’s a way of combating that, you know, it’s so easy to get more stuff. That’s a way of just taking a breath. And it’s like, hey, my buddy has two shopping windows a year. And you know, if he if he still wants something, when the window opens up, well, then he’ll buy it. But, you know, he has found I think most people would find you and I certainly have found that if you leave it there for a while, it’s like, eh, you know what? Once you wait a while, it’s like, I don’t really care about that. And I think part of minimalism to me is not just having less stuff. Because I always say there wouldn’t be, unless you met me on the trail, there wouldn’t be really enough evidence to convict me of being a minimalist. Probably. I mean, I live in a big house and it’s full of stuff. And part of that is my lovely wife. Um, but she doesn’t, you know, she, I can’t blame it all on her, but I think part of it is, you know, one, are you consuming? at a reduced level enough that you have money to do other things. And we donate a huge percentage of our income. And it’s not like we’re denying ourselves, but through consuming less, it frees up income to devote to charitable causes. But the other thing is the things you do own, if you own them or they own you. I had a Subaru, we bought new cars when we moved up to Bend. And New Year’s Eve, I was rushing back because… you got to log on to recreation.gov and get your permits for buckskin gulch in April, so I’m coming back and it’s snowy here in ben and some gal in her Saab. I don’t know what happened but anyway she ran into the ran in my car you know and did I don’t know thirty thousand dollars damage or whatever it was um and you know we’re friends uh we like saying at parties like uh Yeah. How did you run into each other? You know, we were on like private joke. That’s funny. Was amazed at how unconcerned I was that she just wrecked my new car. It’s like it’s just a car, you know? Yeah. We have a very nice camper van. You know, Winnebago Revel, we bought it almost new, slightly used. And, you know, we let friends borrow it. I mean, good friends, obviously. Yeah. And people say, well, that’s like a, you know, one hundred fifty-thousand-dollar rig. Yeah. Letting some stranger. Well, what’s that? they crash it I mean that’s what you got insurance for I mean that’s what they got body shops for it’s like it’s just stuff when you have something like a disabled child or when you’ve been through some stuff um or you know people that are there’s plenty of things that money can’t fix you know sure I just got a terminal diagnosis or something um you realize the thrust of it is really just stuff I mean it doesn’t much matter

Joey – Yeah. You’re very open and honest and vulnerable in your book about how some stories. I love how you talk about your relationship with your wife. In June, you celebrated forty-two years. You talk about how you met, how you dated. I love the story about how she wouldn’t let you scoot the seat back. And you’re a tall guy. Yeah, and the story about her praying to meet a guy and then amending her prayer to get a tall guy, that’s gold. That’s gold. But I love how you talk about, you know, she’s not really a sleep in a tent on the ground type person. uh, type of girl, but y’all got the van as a little bit of a compromise. So, she could have her, uh, all the, you know, comforts of home and you could get outdoors. Uh, Wally is what you named your, your van. And, uh, and I love the compromise there, how you grow and strengthen your relationship to compromise. Do you, do you feel like, uh, that that is something that y’all have done throughout the forty-two years to make it work. Marriage advice is what I’m looking for here. The given the take. Now, my wife and I, we do everything together. Everybody told her, you’ll never find somebody that likes the outdoors as much as you do. Well, she found me and they’re like, oh, you found gold. And so, you know, we’ve backpacked together multiple trips. And we do everything together, hike together, travel together. We did six thousand miles in the northeast and living out of our car. It was amazing. We had the best time. But I love how you see this relationship. Your wife is one of the most important things in your life. And you show her how much you love her by doing little things, the cards and leaving cards for the thing. And this is where I got my wife to ball. And she was just in tears because this is not. in her world that’s not a normal thing for a man to go out of their way now I’m not talking about myself because I do things for my wife but in the normal world that’s not normal for a man to go out of his way and do little things like that like what you do for your wife and I love how you did that so through your experiences what would you say to the man who is putting in way too many hours at work and maybe not spending that time, maybe missing out on some time with his kids or his wife. What would you say to that man as a result of your experiences that you’ve been through?

Glen – Well, and let’s be honest, I was that man. I was that man, too. And that’s why I need to hear this. I was, you know, working sixty, seventy hours a week for my engineering job and other thirty hours a week doing the gear business. I used to read books to the boys. We’d lie down in our bed and I’d start reading a book. And then pretty soon. like my brain had shut out. So, I’d start talking about fire hydrants and graders and stuff like that, which was not what the book was about. And I’d hear Brian say, mommy, dad’s doing it again. And she’d come pick him up, put him to bed. So yeah, I was that guy. Um, And, you know, it’s only the grace of God that my sons don’t seem to be the worst for wear. I mean, they turned out fine. In some ways, I think it may have inoculated them from repeating my mistake because they got to experience that. um so they definitely want to live along the way you know they don’t want to put it all off till later yeah um so that’s a good thing I am actually uh Before we got on, I realized I am late because today’s the twenty-seventh and I miscalculated because we were out boondocking a day longer than I thought. I thought we’re going to be home yesterday. the twenty-sixth because every month on the twenty-sixth of every month we celebrate our anniversary because it’s like once a year is not enough to celebrate a guy like me ending up with a gal like her for sure. So yeah, I’m behind I’m going to have to write one when we’re done here and slip it under the pillow tonight it’s close enough Yeah, I would say, you know, it doesn’t have to be a lot. There was, like, I wrote a post-it one morning and put it on the inside of the cabinet so that when she, this was in our old house, one of the old school cabinets, you know, you open up the medicine cabinet to get your toothbrush or whatever, when she opened it, there was a post-it said, you know, every time I think of you, I don’t know, my heart goes flip flop or whatever. I just scribbled it on a post-it, but that post-it was there for years. Um, so it doesn’t have to be, have to be huge. It just has to be consistent and has to be intentional. I give the hack in the book about, you know, going to a store and loading up on a bunch of cards, you know, cards that, you know, she would enjoy that are, you know, share some, some bond that you have in common and then just, you know, put them in your office. And then when you think of it, you can do it. You know, it’s not like, ah, yeah, I should, I’m feeling really loving or I want to do something, but I don’t have a card and I, you know, I’m not going to drive down to the, So, you know, then set it up for yourself so that you have the tools to do it. Yeah. It’s, you know, to a female, the little things do matter the most. You know, big things come not very often, but if you do small things pretty often, it means the world to them. And so that… Totally gave me ideas. I mean, I don’t have to set a alarm on my phone every two days to, you know, write a note or anything like that. Although we could, uh, with our phones, they’re smarter than we are. And so that would be, that would be pretty handy. And I might do that. And, uh, surprise is nice too. Sometimes, um, you know, like sometimes it just adds a little extra to whatever the gesture is, you know, like the, uh, dishwasher you know Francie comes down in the morning and thinking the dishwasher is full and the first thing she’s going to do is unload it and you know we both do it and it’s not a big deal to her but you know if I’ve already done it she opens it and then closed it so it looks like it was full you know when she opens it expecting to unload it’s like oh I got an extra five minutes this morning because someone was thoughtful and already right or surprised like at work you know when she was working I’d send stuff to work because then you get witnesses you know and that adds to the excitement and pleasure.

Joey – so you have really gone out of your way several times, the story of the bra that was that was really neat the rhinestone bra you gave her a million-dollar bra without having to do that. And the Homeland Security, that was a pretty neat story. You have to beware of a hopeless romantic that may attack you or something like that. That was so cool. I actually listened to that part today again on the way home to let my pup out.

Glen – Yeah, it’s fun to kidnap her sometimes. She doesn’t know where she’s going. And Francie doesn’t, she’s not a big surprise person. But still, it’s a little fun. You know, she doesn’t know, told her pack and we get on the freeway. She doesn’t know if we’re going for a car trip. And then we go to the airport. She doesn’t know where we’re going, you know, until we get to, you know, once we get on the plane, then she goes, oh, you know. So yeah it’s fun they kind of give it away at the airport.

Joey – You describe yourself as an introvert but your comfort zone to love on people now I will probably greatly identify with your aunt Neva you know get in get out type of thing with my line of work a lot of times I really have to work at loving people. And so, you know, the reason that I got into the overlanding part is to get away from people. And this is the part that really hit me right here. I love how you describe the people you find attractive, people who have something to say and nothing to prove. Now, what do you mean by this and why is that an important character trait for you?

Glen – Well, I enjoy. So, yeah, I’m, I’m happy with my own company. You know, I can, we’ll be driving in Wally and Francie will tell her friends like one time I just say, you know what, I’m not going to say anything and I’m just going to see how long it is before Glenn says something. It’s like, you’ll lose that bet I think yeah don’t tempt me I can go happily for twelve hours just thinking about whatever and not seeing a thing embrace the silence embrace the silence not a problem no but uh you know I realized one at first in my in my career engineering um I realized that you know if you can figure out well first everything you want to get done no matter how smart you are and how hard you work how many hours you work is going to get done through other people at some level and so you need to figure out how to relate to other people and I figured you know if you can sure if you got some engineering skills that’s great if you can learn how to write stuff that people actually want to read and learn to do public speaking well then you’ll always have a job that’s what I figured and So far it worked. I always had a job, you know, till I didn’t need one anymore. But for, you know, it’s like I’m happy by myself, taking a trip by myself, but people bring richness to life. And, you know, I know that because it’s happened. And so, I forced myself to create situations where I’m with other people. And one of those is actually I got the idea from John Mackey is what I call the list. And I’ll get usually a couple of times a year. I’ll get a some permits for a backpacking trip and then I’ll send it out to a list of people that’s currently probably about seventy people to see if anyone can join. And these are people who my shorthand for them is people with something to say. nothing to prove um and that is people that you know they have interesting lives which if you take time to talk to them is pretty much everyone I’ve come across um you know it doesn’t seem interesting to them necessarily but that’s because it’s their life right it’s different from our lives and so it’s fascinating to us um and but they don’t have to be the center of attention so they’re you know they’re not like me I mean introverts are okay you know because you got that’s the good thing about backpacking you’re walking all day it’s like you got nothing else to do you might as well yeah right um you don’t have to talk but you know you certainly have the opportunity to talk um so people that are willing to share but they don’t have to be the one you know always one-upping this is what I’m doing this is what I’ve done uh those people don’t get on the list.

Joey – Well you have met some very interesting people, I imagine, through the years doing this trip. You know, you talk about the six degrees of separation where the small world and I love your sentence where you say we’re often only an introduction or two away from knowing some of the world’s most amazing, interesting people. And I can think about in my life, you know, and the travels that I’ve done and see how true that is. How you meet a friend of a friend and that person, you just can’t get enough of them. You can’t listen to their stories enough. And so, you know, it makes me wonder, OK, so I can think about the stories that I have and the people that I’ve met and this list trip that you’ve taken. How has having this trip meeting these people impacted your life? How has it changed your life? Because I know you’ve met lifelong friends through this trip that were just maybe acquaintances or somebody that you knew. So how has doing this trip impacted your life as a whole?

Glen – Well, I’ve gained new friends. I mean, I’ve been able to sometimes help them with something or they’ve been able to help me with something. When I set out to write this book, I thought, ah, it’s going to be a lot of work. I’ve never written a book before. And even though I’m donating all the proceeds, I want to do it right and you know, make it successful to the extent that I can. Um, and then suddenly I realized that I know lots of people that are authors, you know, some of them like bestselling authors. Um, and they’re all very, I mean, we didn’t talk about it when we were hiking, but you know, when I sat down and realized it and they were happy to spend time with me to, you know, read the rough draft and give suggestions and work on the title and make introductions to publishers and things like that. So, um, you know, I’m at the, in the point in life where when I meet someone new, I’m always curious, like, are they, you know, why am I meeting this person? Why is God putting them in my path is do I have something, am I going to be able to help them with something? You know, maybe they were just wondering, huh, gosh, I wish I could backpack with less weight. I’m your guy. Or, you know, who knows? I mean, learn to wash dishes or whatever, some skill that I can help with. Or, you know, maybe they have something that I need. You know, I’ve been thinking about, gosh, I need to meet someone who knows how to do ABC. And what do you know? Here’s this person that knows how to do that. Or they know somebody who knows somebody who knows how to do it. Right. And so sometimes I’ll meet someone and I think it’s going to be one thing, but it turns out being another. I had a guy early on in this journey when I had to put together a website. So, I thought, okay, well, I’m going to need some good photography. I’ve achieved the pinnacle of success in life because my photographs look better than I do now. Which to me is like, you know, like someone’s made it when they’re, wow, their photograph looks really good. Not so much them, you know?

Joey – So, I’m there now. I’m proud. That’s awesome. When somebody meets you in person, they think, oh, that’s not what I thought you’d look like. exactly I kind of had the same thing listening to your audible book because that’s not you on the audible book I was like okay this voice is different

Glen – okay yeah no I know someone that had someone that had talked to me beforehand you know got the book and hadn’t realized that they go wait a minute this isn’t Glen he sounds different somehow but so I doing the website I talked to a guy locally here who seems to know everybody and he introduced me to one guy I had coffee with him he does amazing photography he says I don’t do portrait stuff he says that talk to this other guy and then he you know shared that this guy had just gotten a terminal diagnosis and You know, so don’t wait too long before contacting him, basically. And so, in the meantime, before I got in touch with the second photographer, I realized that I knew a thru-hiker who took amazing photographs. And, you know, I could just hire her. She’d come down from Washington and take a couple photos and be done. But I thought, well, I already said I’d meet this guy for coffee. So, I meet to have coffee with the second photographer. Well, and it turns out, uh, you know, we get to talking about his diagnosis and he’s got a list, you know, things he’s like to do while he’s on earth. and to have the maximum time on earth, you know, make the most use of it. He quit his job. So obviously finances are tight. Well, you know, because we’ve been intentional about setting funds aside into a different account. you know, we can write a check and help him get to Patagonia to get something off his bucket list. So, you know, that was a case of, well, I meet this guy thinking he’s going to do something for me, but as it turns out, nope, I can do something for him. So, you just never know.

Joey – Oh, that’s, that’s incredible story. And that’s not even in your book. That’s not in the book now for, you know, for privacy reasons. Yeah. Yeah. That’s free. Um, well, I want to get into talk a little bit about, uh, backpacking a little bit. We haven’t hit the head on that yet and time is flying. So, you state that your love for outdoors was cultivated, in Boy Scouts when you were, when you were young. Uh, what was the draw to the outdoors for you as a child?

Glen – I don’t remember. I just, you know, even before Boy Scouts, when we were young, I think I’ve got a picture in the book of me as a like baby toddler, you know, out at some state campground with my dad’s international harvester. Yeah. You know, back before overlanding was a thing, you were overlanding with your dad. Yeah. Yeah. Just the, you know, the smell of sun on the pine needles and the trees and the, birds and squirrels and campfires and, you know, the Coleman lanterns, the old Coleman stove. I just I just thought that was nice being outside. And I was lucky enough to grow up in a time, you know, before the Internet was invented to You know, we lived outside. Yeah. We knew there was a neighbor that rang the bell like at five o’clock and I was like, okay, you know, you could hear it from the whole neighborhood time to get home for dinner. But yeah, we were just outside having fun. Constantly outside. That reminds me of when I was a kid as well.

Joey – In your book, you mentioned several places that you have been or like to go. You mentioned the Buckskin Gulch several times, the PCT, the continental vibe bike trail that you did. I don’t even know how to pronounce Alpha Adria. Is that how you pronounce it? Alpha Adria. What makes a place special and attractive to you that make you want to go?

Glen – Well, I like, I mean, my, what really makes my heart sing is kind of mountains above tree line. Um, so that’s always special to me, but really anything, um, you know, like other cultures are interesting. Like the Alp Adria went through, uh, Austria, Slovenia and Italy. So, you know, different languages, different cultures. Just like waiting for a taxi driver at one location to take us somewhere. And I hear a bunch of music and it’s a Sunday. It’s kind of like across the lake. And I go, what’s that? And she’s enthusiastic speaker of English, but you know, she’s like checking on her phone. She says, it doesn’t really translate. It’s beer Sunday. It’s like, What’s that? Well, you know, they go to church and then afterwards everybody has beer and brats and dance and stuff. It’s like, well, that sounds great. Sounds horrible. There’s one way to get people at church, you know, but it’s just these things you, you find different cultures. Um, and then part of it’s the people, you know, if you’re with people who have something to say, but nothing to prove, then it doesn’t really matter what you’re doing. It’s always a good time.

Joey – True. Well the people can make it better or they can make it a lot worse

Glen – oh yeah

Joey – everyone who hikes knows about trail names we know that they’re earned uh not self-given and you have had several that have been given to you uh homemade was one of the first ones uh they called you the legend which they he said in the book that you don’t like that one very much And then one that only I think you said now only four people in the world know the meaning of the G squared. Which one do you most identify with? Most people know you by.

Glen – I usually use G squared.

Joey – G squared. But you just it’s a top-secret thing that nobody can know what the meaning of.

Glen – You know, people assume they know uh because obviously you know the common thing is oh it stands for Gossamer Gear, which it doesn’t right um recently had a guy super smart like we’re talking Elon Musk smart uh a new friend of John’s and been on a couple hikes with him he thought about it and guessed it boom just like that I was like wow that was scary that’s awesome but the guy who actually gave it to me forgot he forgot why he gave it what it stands for so yeah

Joey – oh that’s good well we have to talk about gear in your videos you talk about gear and gear lists are one of your favorite things in the world you said and it’s mine too and so we cannot not talk about gear Um, so I’ve watched several of your videos. I love watching your videos because you go through every single thing. And I would encourage everybody to go on they’re on Gossamer Gears, YouTube and your website. And they’re also on Gossamer Gears website, uh, in the different backpacks. You state that most of the items you take with you are for the trail, much less for camp because you want to be walking, you know, you talk about if you stop, you constantly lose ground. So what, what is some of your favorite gear that you have? I know you’ve got to have favorite gear, uh, and all the things that you take. What’s some of your favorite stuff?

Glen – Yeah. You know, I just actually Gossamer Gear is doing a some kind of blog series on gear list. So, I just actually just wrote some stuff on that. And I don’t know about favorite. I mean, my oldest piece of gear is a pair of purple fleece socks. Um, I got those at REI when I loaded up with, you know, a huge internal frame pack and everything for Brian’s first Sierra Trek. And, uh, those are still in my pack virtually every trip. They keep my feet warm at night. When I put hospital booties over them, they’re my camp shoes. And then I cut slits in them. So, if it’s really super cold, I can use them as mittens also.

Joey – Well, for you not to be able to wear out a pair of socks, I’m amazed.

Glen – Well, they’re just sleep socks. Okay. Okay. So, you’re not hiking in them. You’re just sleeping. I’m not hiking in them.

Joey – Where did the hospital booties come from? That blew me away when I first saw that. Where did the idea for hospital booties come from?

Glen – I don’t know. You just need something to keep the dirt out of your feet when you’re in camp. And most sandals and stuff are pretty heavy.

Joey – Very heavy. And they trick you. They trick you because when you look at the weight on their website, it’s only for one. It’s not for the pair. And so, they trick you. Oh, these only weigh five ounces. No, they weigh five ounces a piece. And so, you know, it’s a trickery. And they’ve caught me. They’ve caught me a few times. Well, when my wife and I got together, I told her there’s several things that I can compromise on. I want to love you. I want to be the man that that you want me to be. You know, I want to be all that you’ve ever dreamed of. But there’s one thing that you’re just going to have to get used to. I love I love gear. I love gear. I’m a gearhead. I love gear. And we live in a great day for gear. You know, you mentioned that when you started to lighten your load, your first internal backpack given five stars by the experts was seven and a half pounds. And that’s just the pack. And you talk about when you did your first trip with your son, your pack was seventy-one and a half pounds. Thirteen-year-old sons was forty pounds. And so, we live in a day now that was many, many, many, many years ago. And we live in a day now where you can get things that are not even remotely close to that so much better. And because of you, we’ve, we’ve done that, but, but you then talk about how tired and sore everything was at the end of that taking away so much enjoyment out of time. And that made you think maybe. there is a better, more efficient way of doing things. And is that when the engineering wheels start rolling in your mind about if there’s not anything out there. And I love how you talk about when you sent your pattern to the people to sew the stuff together, they were like, this is not like what we’ve already done. And you’re like, right, that’s exactly why we want to do it. I love that. And I get tickled. I’ve listened to that twice and read it twice. And I’ve got tickled every time. I chuckled both times. Yeah, that’s the reason we’re doing this is to do something different. Is that when everything, is that when the wheels started going was when everything was so heavy and your friend was like, I want to do part of the PCT, but I can’t do it with a seventy-pound pack?

Glen – The other thing that kicked it off was my buddy Reed Miller read Ray Jardine’s Pacific Crest Trail Hiker’s Handbook, his first book. And he’s got gear lists in the back, like his and Jenny’s gear lists that were like eight pounds and change. And I remember sitting there with Reed and just looking at those like, under eight pounds or, you know, eight pound, eight and a half pounds base pack weight. That’s insane. You know?

Joey – Yeah. It doesn’t even compute really.

Glen – Yeah, no, it’s like, it’s, it’s just crazy. And now, like, I can’t remember. the last time my best pathway was that heavy. You know, part of it is materials, but yeah, I, you know, now we live in such an amazing, you don’t have to know how to sew. I mean, because there, there are now hundreds of guys like me, cottage guys making, probably whatever you think is a good idea there’s somebody else that’s making it there wasn’t you know twenty five thirty years ago right so I had to make my own um but now you don’t even have to sew I mean if you look hard enough it’s out there yeah you know that they say there’s nothing new under the sun and you know uh if you if you can’t find it where you are the internet will uh will show you that there’s something out there

Joey – yeah So, your current pack that you carry is the Gossamer Gear Murmur 36 Hyperlite. Saw this in your video. Watched the video, which with the sit pad, it and the belt comes in just over twelve ounces. It’s not even a pound and that’s according to the website. That’s according to the website. Sounds right. You stated in your video, and I encourage everybody to watch this video because you actually take this pack with your stuff in it and unpack it and show everybody what it is that you designed. What is it that you like about this pack compared to the others? What’s different about it?

Glen – So the pack itself without a waist belt, and usually I don’t need it cause I’m kind of under twelve, thirteen pounds fully loaded. Um, is it, it weighs less than eight ounces, so it’s everything I need. You know, it’s got all the conveniences. It’s got a sternum strap. It’s got adjustable shoulder straps that are breathable. It’s got a huge back pocket that you can stuff full of stuff, you know, rain jackets or your snacks or lunch. It’s got a side pocket that you can put a water bottle in. It’s got another side pocket that you can, you know, put your tent or your bag of, you know, first aid and emergency stuff. So, it’s got… everything I think at least you need, but weighs less than half a pound.

Joey – And you designed this pack, right? This was this was one of the ones you did.

Glen – Yes

Joey – Well, you have after watching your videos and several other people’s videos, you’ve inspired me. You’ve inspired me. I’ve backpacked for years. And, you know, it was several years ago. And this is my confession here. Several years ago, I was overweight. My blood pressure was extremely high. And I went to the nurse and she said, your BP is so high, you need to go to the doctor. Now I went to the doctor now and he, uh, right then. And he told me, he said, you got two choices, uh, life change or stroke. And, um, so I decided life change would be better than a stroke. Um, at that point, you know, obviously. Um, and so I, I chose different, started going to the gym, working out and then I mean, just like a light bulb went off. But backpacking is so much more fun than the treadmill. It’s so much more fun than treadmill. Hiking is so much more fun than the treadmill because you’re in, you know, once you’re inside, the other you’re outside, you’re getting to see everything. There are trails everywhere. There are apps now where you can find a trail that you don’t even know exists that could be a mile down the road. And I got into… backpacking full force, hiking full force. I mean, I was doing it every day. I was putting a backpack on my, on myself every day, going out, life changed, lost a ton of weight, but my first trip with my buddies and I, and this is since college or, and, you know, since I was young, now I’m in my mid-fifties now. So, it’s, it’s been a while since, you know, I took some time off. I didn’t backpack for a while, but when my buddies were like, hey, come go with us. I’d lost all my weight, I’m ready to go. I said, OK, I’m going to do this. My pack was thirty-six pounds and this was me losing. I lost. And here’s another confession. I lost fifty-two pounds in two months. I mean, I took it seriously. I did not want to die. I’m the only man in my family that has not had a heart attack before the age of fifty-two. And I didn’t want to be next. And so, I was like, OK, I’m doing this. But when I did that, I lost a ton of muscle, a ton of muscle. And I put this thirty-six-pound pack on and we take off going on the Ozark Highlands Trail through the Ozarks. And we get about. Two miles in, and I’m like, this was not a good idea. This was not a good idea. I felt like my feet were cement blocks. It was so heavy. You know, I bought this Mystery Ranch pack. You know, they make them for the military. They’re good enough for me. And, yeah, it’s six pounds, and it’ll last fifteen lifetimes. But, goodness gracious, it’s very heavy. And everything that I put in there was… very heavy. And so, you have inspired me. And I have right here, I have the G-four. And the reason I have the G4 is because after reading your book, that is the one that you ended up with, that you, you went from the G1, the G2, the G3. And I love how you say, yeah, I was very creative in my titles. You know, you ended up with the G4 and that seemed to be the one that kicked off that started everything for you, Gossamer gear. And I said, I want to own this pack. I want this pack to be mine. I want a G4. And so, I get on Gossamer gear’s website and guess what? They’ve got a sale and they’re getting rid of last year’s models to go this year’s models. And they’re like half price. And I’m like sold! And I, and I, and I was like, oh my goodness, I’ve got to get this in. I’ve got to get this in. And I watched your videos on how to pack and what to pack. And, Now I’ve got my base weight down. I weighed it the other day. I packed it. You know, I’ve got scales for everything. And then I’ve got this app called Pack Light. It’s amazing where you can weigh your stuff and it builds a list of everything that you own, all your gear and the weight. And then you could, then you could put together a pack and it’ll tell you how much your pack’s going to weigh with your stuff. So, if you’ve got more than one sleeping bag, more than one, you know, cook stove or whatever. And it’s so fun for me to sit there and just am I packing this? How much my pack going to weigh? I got my base weight to twelve pounds and I was like, yes, I’ve done it. I’ve done it. I can do this. How far and how much more enjoyable can I be with twelve pounds instead of thirty-six? I was so excited. I did high kicks and almost hurt myself.

Glen – You can, I mean, you can do more miles, you can do, you know, whatever you want for some people, it means they have more weight. you know, they have more capacity, I guess, to, to take a big camera, if that’s what’s important to them. Um, but, uh, yeah, you can do more miles or just, uh, you know, one thing that always stuck with me as an interview, or maybe it was just a talk with, Coop, Coopiness of go light, uh, back in the day. And he was talking about their progression and he, he and his wife, Kim were doing backpacking and, and, you know, everything hurt their waist hurt and shoulders hurt and, Finally, they got like a Dana designs pack or something, big Terraplane or whatever it was back in the day, put all their stuff in and they went on a pack and they thought it was great. You know, it fit us so well. It’s like the shoulders were okay. The, you know, our hips didn’t hurt, but he said, but our legs still hurt. Our feet still hurt. And that’s when he realized like, okay, it’s just not about the fit. It’s all that weight is you still got to carry all that weight, even if the pack fits well. Yeah.

Joey – So yeah, if you reduce the weight, that helps everything. Well, and the guys even told me, oh, you think you’re hurting today? Wait till tomorrow. And I thought, well, that doesn’t sound fun. I mean, how many Ibuprofens do I have to take to feel good tomorrow? And so, it’s a whole new way of thinking. But you really hit me hard when you talk about people backpack or they pack their fears. And that is so me. That’s so me. I mean, you spoke to me personally. It’s like reading a verse in the Bible and you’re like, OK, God, you wrote this for me. Or when you’re sitting there, listen to the preacher. And I’m like, is there anybody else in the room? Am I the only one that’s getting this? Because you wrote the sermon for me. But OK, so this summer. This summer, my wife and I were doing a part of the North Country Trail. We were in Upper Michigan, and this was one of the first times that we actually had to take a shuttle. So, we parked on one end. It was forty-six miles. We take the shuttle and I thought, OK, we got to make sure we don’t forget anything because once that shuttle picks us up, that’s it. That’s it. And I was like, we’re going to get there early. We’re going to get to the parking lot early. We’re going to go through everything. We’re going to make sure we’ve got everything. And I go to fill up our water at the visitor center there at Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore and go over to fill up our water and make sure we got everything. And the bus pulls up. He’s an hour early. And I’m like, oh, my gosh, we can actually get a head start. So, I run back to the car. I run over there. Are you here to pick us up? Are you Mr. Slate? Yes, I am. Oh, we’re ready. We’re ready. And we throw our packs in there, we go and we’re so excited. We get there, we take our picture by the sign. We get about a hundred yards down the trail. And my wife says, babe, babe, where are our trekking poles? Where’s our trekking poles? And I’m thought, you have got to be kidding. We have to have trekking poles for our tent. Our tent, our trek, our tent is a trekking pole tent. We cannot use our tent without trekking poles. And I just had this moment of, this is my worst fear because I pack for my fears. I pack because I don’t want to leave anything at home. And the only thing I forgot was the two things that were not in my pack. That’s the only thing I forgot. And so fortunately. You know, we were in a city and I walked, actually, I waved at a lady. I was walking to, we called a store and they had four trekking poles, two sets of trekking poles. And I was walking about two miles. I told my wife, I said, stay with this stuff. I’m just going to take off walking. Whenever I get back, I get back. And so as soon as I left the parking lot, this lady was coming out of the hospital and I said, I said, hey, ma’am, how are you? She waved at me and I said, well, you can give me a ride. And she said, sure, get in. And I’m like, I don’t I didn’t even tell you where I was going. And trail angel big time. She’s like, what’s going on? I told her, she said, well, I’ll tell you what, I’ll take you. I’ll drop you off. I’ll go get some gas and I’ll pick you up and I’ll bring you back. And when I showed back up to my wife in like twenty minutes, she’s like, what in the world? You know, and we just both laugh about that, but you, you hit me so hard about packing for my fears because I’m always looking at the weather. What if I need this? What if I need an umbrella? What if I need another hoodie? What if I need, what if my feet get wet? I mean, just constantly, will I get cold? And so it’s, it’s something that you have to constantly think about and, and, get over and you know figure out a way to work through some things because you’ve totally inspired me to totally rethink when I when you know I like to plan ahead so three or four days when we’re out and I’ve got everything spread out all over the floor of the house this is what I’m going to take I need to go through there and figure out what I can live without in order to get my pack weight down instead of trying to figure out what I can add to be comfortable. It’s a whole new way of thinking. I love it.

Glen – Yeah. I mean, some of it might be as simple as stuff that was in your pack that you didn’t use the whole time. You know, it’s like, well, I was worried about this, but I didn’t actually use that. There are some exceptions like, okay, first aid. It’s like, well, you hope you don’t have to use it, but you probably still want to take it. Right. But a lot of people take just in case stuff and, after three or four trips, I realized, well, I’ve been hauling that around for four trips now and never actually used that. I think you need to come out here, get you an ocean roll, and then you and I, you need to experience a six-pound base pack weight and just see how that works out.

Joey – I can’t imagine, but I would do that in a heartbeat. I would do that in a heartbeat. We do have in common. Leaving the trailhead with twelve pounds on your back and that’s all your food and water. It’s a whole different experience. I can’t imagine because I carry more than that in my pack every day. You know, and I train. I’m getting over a foot injury. I had a motorcycle accident four weeks ago today, and I still can’t walk very well. I don’t limp anymore. But at my age, at our age, it takes a long time to heal. So, I got to be very careful. Yeah. I can’t hike right now. I can’t get out and walk very well. But I can ride a bicycle all day. So, my wife and I have been taking bike rides in order to get our exercise in. And I’ve been training because we want to do this backpacking trip. I’ve got a trailer that I pull my dog in. I’m pulling an extra thirty pounds. I told her, I said, when I’m not pulling this trailer, this bicycle is going to feel like so light because I’ll be used to pulling the dog around. And I try to, I try to, you know, train a little bit heavier. So that way it, everything feels a little bit lighter, but when you get that base weight down to even less than what you carry every day to work, I can’t imagine. And that being everything you need to live for a certain amount of time. It just totally blows my mind.

Glen – Yeah. I don’t really train. I mean, one, you know, my pack is always packed. I don’t put the sleeping bag in it. Um, cause I, I don’t want that to be compressed and I put my down jacket in, but everything else is basically ready to go for a three-day trip. So, and, and that was, you could call me and say, Hey Glen, are you ready? Yeah. I just need to pick which sleeping bag, which shelter, you know, bug spray, um, or not head net or not a couple of minor things throwing, you know, I got plenty of food lying around throwing, yeah. One point two pounds times, you know, two point five days and I’m out the door.

Joey – I thought about that today, asking you how you store your stuff, but you keep it in your pack,

Glen – everything but the puffy stuff that needs to expand so you don’t compress it. And so, I usually keep my wedge shelter, my 2.7-ounce tarp shelter in there, cause that’s my go-to, but you know, if it’s, if there’s going to be bugs or the weather’s going to particularly nasty, then I’ll pull that out, put in the whisper, you know, ten ounces to get a full tent. But it is pretty much everything else. And when I get back from a trip. I like, you know, anything I’ve used out of the first aid kit. I take any of the, you know, the wipes, the spray for the antiseptic spray for cleaning your hands. You know, I replenish all that so it’s always ready to go. So, I don’t need to think about like, oh, did I, you know, put new batteries in or whatever the case may be.

Joey – Fuel tablets for your stove you all you know how to pray so we actually have the same stove uh this is my absolute favorite stove uh and I saw on your video you have this oh it’s Trail Designs Caldera

Glen – So I’m going to save you a little weight you know that big heavy plastic thing you can ditch that so what you do Now, you don’t want to dent the stove or the beer can because then it’ll break because I’ve done that. Yeah. So, what you do is, and I’m going to save the weight of your sleeping bag stuff sack also, throw out your sleeping bag stuff sack, put your sleeping bag in the bottom of the pack and then kind of make a dent in the top of it and nestle that can right in there. And then I usually put my shelter or something on the top to kind of bridge it, but that distributes the force and you don’t need that big, heavy plastic case to protect it. We probably just saved you an ounce and a half right there. Maybe two.

Joey – Whatever we have to do. Whatever we have to do. Now, why did you go to a tarp? Is it just for weight, or are you very comfortable sleeping in a tarp instead of a tent?

Glen – I actually prefer the tarp just being more connected with the outside. Right. Unless there’s bugs outside, obviously, you know. Then I don’t want to be connected to the bugs. Arkansas. Yeah. Well, then I’d be taking the Whisper, you know. And I just discovered the whisper. Oh, my goodness. So, I’m playing on Goss Merger’s website because, you know, when I have spare time at work and I’m at a laptop, that’s what I do.

Joey -And did you design the whisper? Is this one of your things?

Glen – Yeah, I designed that because I was doing a thousand miles on the Great Divide bikepacking.

Joey – For the bikepacking, right.

Glen – For the bikepacking. And I knew there were going to be bugs. And so, I thought about maybe just a head net, earplugs, and some Tylenol PM. But I thought, nah, night after night, that’s not going to hack it. I wanted a tent, so I designed the Whisper. I’ve got, when you come for that ocean roll, I can show you like the twelve versions in Tyvek that I did before I finally… I only got it dialed in.

Joey – And there’s only a certain amount of these that are going to be made? It’s what the website says.

Glen – It’s like a limited edition. We did. That’s always the problem. When I design something, I bring it to the product design team. And the first question is, okay, are there five other guys besides Glenn who think this is a good idea? And a lot of times the answer is probably not. And this one was, well, maybe we’ll make a hundred and see how they do. But they sold out and we just ordered another hundred. So, they should be good. They’re on the way.

Joey – It is, um, it’s not anything like I’ve ever seen. And there’s not anything out there like it that I’ve ever seen because you either in everything that I’ve seen, you either get a tent or a tarp. And, um, even if you get on the big, like Hyperlite or anything like that, you get a tarp and you can add insides to it, but you don’t have anything quite like this. This is, this is a one of a kind. Have you seen anything else that is anywhere close to it? Because it’s pretty much like a tarp that has the edge of it. The edges of it, they go down to the ground or is, or the, or is the bug stuff. It doesn’t have a floor. You can add a floor, but, in your video, you just show you putting like a DCF floor down, put rocks down around it to hold it down.  Is there anything else?

Glen – I just use the polycryo ground sheets that we, cause they’re the lightest and you know, that way they’re, if they wear out. You know, if you get another one, if you if you make a full tent and you put a nice DCF floor in, well, that’s going to affect. I just got a tent with a floor back from some through hikers I lent it to that has a hole in it now. So, you know, if you got a five-hundred-dollar tent and you put a hole in the floor, that’s suboptimal. So, you either have to make the floor a bunch much heavier so it’s more durable. or just make it removable. So that’s the route I went. And the other thing I did that you don’t see a lot is I put a pole at the end to keep it off your feet. Tried to do with one pole and just really couldn’t get the configuration I wanted. So, you take your second trekking pole or segmented poles if you’re on a bicycle and put out at the toe and it gives you, it’s quite roomy for ten ounces.

Joey – It looked like it. And all the I like reading reviews. And I read the reviews that are on there and everybody talks about us. And one guy said, if you travel with a dog, this is the best shelter that you could possibly have because it doesn’t have the floor and you don’t have to worry about the dog getting in there and messing up because they can just crawl on the side. It was, it was very good review. Uh, enjoy that tight with a dog.

Glen – I would think unless it was a small dog. Um, but nine point eight ounces, nine point eight ounces. Yeah. I don’t take the stuff to act obviously. So, right, that would kick it up to ten, I think.

Joey – Love it. Food is one of the heaviest things that we carry. What, if anything, do you do to save weight on your food? Now, you said a minute ago that you package food according to weight per day because you know how much food you consume per day. So, is there anything that you do with, do you repackage food or is there certain foods that you take that they don’t weigh very much? How do you do your food? That interests me.

Glen – So, and I’ve got an article on this. I think there’s a segment in the book in Lesson Seven, and also, I’ve got an article on my website. Oh, and I should mention all the What’s in My Pack videos are also on my website under videos, glenvanpesky.com. So food, I mean, I like hot food. I mean, that’s a luxury item. Um, you know, but my cooking kid only weighs like three and a half ounces. So that’s to me, it’s worth it to have a hot meal. Um, but I like to snack all through the day. Um, so I generally don’t take anything that weighs, um, less than a hundred calories an ounce or that has less than a hundred calories an ounce. Um, so not a lot of fluffy, I don’t know, popcorn or stuff like that although that’s pretty light, so that might even make, then I just, you know, again, I’m geared for motion. So typically, I’m not heating water in the morning. You know, I’m only boiling water at night for dinner. So, water or breakfast will be like a food bar. I’ll take eight dark chocolate covered espresso beans, pop them in my pocket so I can have my coffee while I’m walking and then eat a food bar and then. you know, um, snack until lunch and then have some kind of, lunch could be a cold soak, thing, or it could be some string cheese and Triscuits, some vegan jerky, something like that. And then kind of snack until dinner.

Joey – I like how you say everybody, uh, everybody thinks that cold soaks a good idea until everybody else is cooking, you know, hot meals. I’m telling you hot meals or, a primo yeah for only three and a half ounces it’s like I’ll carry that weight do you do you go uh so a lot of the people that I’ve backpacked with have the saying that you’re allowed to take one luxury item do you have you ever done that is that something that you do well, my stove’s a luxury item.

Glen – Okay. Because you can live without cooking things. I have done cold stove. I just prefer not to. Yeah. It just makes life so much more enjoyable when you have a hot pan. That’s my luxury item. Well, wrapping it up here, what is the gear that you’ve come up with over the years that you would be the proudest of, the most useful, the most helpful to others? What would it be?

Glen – I don’t know the proudest or most helpful. Um, my wife always kids me about the crotch pot. Um, which we say is the, you know, the third way between cold soak and stove is crotch pot. Use your body heat to warm your dinner. She says, yeah, that’ll be on your gravestone. That’s the inventor of the crotch pot. So that might be the most unique, uh, piece of gear. Um, I like how the whisper turned out. You know, it’s more weight than I want to usually carry for shelter, but when there’s bugs out, I like it a lot.

Joey – Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You stayed on your website that you have family in South Africa, lots of family in South Africa. Um, have you ever seen or hiked the Drakensberg Grand Traverse?

Glen – No, but I think I read, who was the guy? Shoot. I can see his face. Anyway, famous thru-hiker whose name is escaping me. I read his account of it. Of course, listen to the power of one.

Joey – reason that we have fell in love with him is because he doesn’t talk. It’s silent hiking. And so, it’s just all video. He has a guy who does music for him. But… I love him because a lot of times you get on YouTube and everybody, all they do is talk, you know, and I’m like, I don’t want to see that. I want to see where you are in that way. I want to, that’ll tell me if I want to go there or not. And his name is Harmon Hoek, H-A-R-M-E-N-H-O-E-K. Incredible. He has won so many awards for his videos, but he did a video on the Drakensberg Traverse and, and it is one of the most beautiful pieces I’ve ever seen. Some of the most beautiful countryside and hiking through there. And when I set up, where is this place? And it’s through Lesotho and South Africa. And I had no idea that places like that existed there. And so, look him up because if you ever just want to sit down and just… enjoy, you know, a snack or a cup of coffee by watching a video. This guy is unreal, unreal, beautiful. And it would, if you ever go there to visit family, I mean, check it out because, you know, maybe, maybe you and I need to take the wives over there.

Glen – My, my wife would be happy to hang with the relatives and SIPT and, you know, I think she would, she would probably, it’d be a hard pass on that for her, but. Sounds like yours would be up for it. So, uh, my wife and I have a contest of how many continents we’ve been to and I’m ahead of her by one.

Joey – And so, South America or South Africa is what she’s never been to Africa. I’ve been to Africa and she’s never been to Africa. So she would be, she would be totally, totally down for this. And, and I would too, especially after watching that video.

Glen – Oh, my family is always bugging us. We just saw them at a family reunion in, um, boulder golden this year I think maybe last year um and yeah, they’re always bugging us to come visit.

Joey – so yeah my wife is on there she said yes oh my goodness um I just want to say to you I am honored um to sit down with you and just visit with you get to know you a little better um we have so much in common um and you know a lot of it has not been said um you know my wife and I when we were riding our bikes just last night actually and she had started reading the book she said he reminds me so much of you how uh and it’s not just we both drive a Subaru it’s you know always busy, always thinking about this or that, or, you know, always wanting to learn how something works and how to make it better or how, you know, you have this, run it through some questions about how you can, make it better or make it lighter or make it easier on yourself or do things for somebody else. But I love how, you’re always wanting to better yourself. You’re never satisfied. You’re always wanting to come up with something new. And I would love to be able to get in your mind and see inside that head and what’s going on in there. It’d probably freak a lot of people out. I know. It looks a lot like the inside of your mind. Well, it could. Scrambled eggs is what I call it. But I just want to tell you, I appreciate you for taking time. But I don’t want to… I don’t want to fail you by not giving you an opportunity to talk about your faith. You talk in your book about your gopher conversion, and I love this. But you become a Christian later in life, and the story is phenomenal, and I love it. But you receive in the introduction to your book, John Mackey gives you probably the greatest compliment that can be given to anybody um that’s a Christian and he says if all Christians were like Glenn and his amazing wife Francie the entire world would become Christian and so what I want to ask you is with everything that you’ve been through with all the stuff that you’ve gone through and if you read the book you’ll get to experience a lot of the good, the bad and the ugly about everything that’s happened in your life with so many different things, the plane crash, your son, all these things. How would your life be different without faith?

Glen – You know, I don’t know. I don’t know if we would have made it. I don’t know if we’d still be married. Um, I mean, there were some there were some hard times. And as an engineer, I’m always just like, OK, we’ll figure it out. You know, work harder, work longer, get smarter, get better, figure it out. And then our middle son, Derek, being born severely disabled. I wasn’t going to figure that out. Nothing I can do to fix that. But I think what makes my, you know, when I was in junior high, I used to worry about growing up, like, how does that work? Like people have to, I mean, you have to go get a job and like find a place to live and get money and like figure out what you’re going to eat. And it just seemed like, oh my gosh, you know? And then I finally figured out, I kind of looked around and go, well, these guys are going to figure it out. So, it must not be as hard as I’m making it. Yeah. But to me, it’s just having, um, I guess having, I think, a secure future. So, I don’t, you know, we don’t, I mean, we’re enjoying life, but we don’t worry about death. And it gives us a different perspective, I think, on our stuff. You know, this is just stuff that we’ve been blessed with to bless others with and you know we have plenty but um you know people are surprised when you know we can write a ten thousand dollar check to make to fix something it’s like well that’s probably why you met us you know that’s probably why God put you in our path so we could fix this um but just having that excitement every day of exploring, you know, what does God have for me to do today? Who’s he going to bring across my path?

Joey – Divine appointments.

Glen – Yeah. What are the appointments that I’m going to have today? And are they going to tell me something that I need to hear? You know am I going to be able to comfort them or help fix some problem they have?

Joey – Well, I love how in the conclusion of your book, you talk about how this take less, do more actually makes you others focused. It says you’re able, by taking less, you’re able to do more and the results benefit the entire community. And when you get that focus off yourself and what can I do for me, and what can I instead, what can I do for others to help benefit others?

Glen – Your life becomes so much more meaningful and filled with purpose that all the stuff that you don’t have, that void of lack of stuff is filled with void. You don’t really need all the stuff because the joy is still there. besides if you bought the stuff, it’d probably be too heavy and then you wouldn’t use it so there you go that is one that is actually one good thing about being having a severely light base pack weight is most new gear you are not interested in because if it’s heavier like if it’s heavier than what I have I’m really not interested which saves me a lot of things on my list because mine’s pretty light.

Joey – So true. Oh, my goodness. What’s next for Glenn Van Pesky? What can we what can we be looking out for the rest of this year and beyond?

Glen – Well, this year actually we’re home for a couple of days and then we’re heading out to, another road trip for a week or a week and a half in Wally. I’ve got to come back. I’ve got a backpacking trip for a friend of mine, a National Geographic photographer and a bunch of his friends in Sierra. Then I’ve got to go talk give a talk in Japan giving like the keynote for some gear fest over there then we’ll do a road trip to Texas maybe Texas is close to Arkansas isn’t it?

Joey – it’s right up against us yes sir

Glen – So maybe we have to swing wide on that one. You never know. That’d be nice. We’ll be down there.

Joey – We’re going down to do some backpacking in Big Bend over Christmas. I’ve been backpacking in Big Bend. Big Bend is an amazing place in the winter because it doesn’t get that cold. And so, we’ve been down there two Christmases in a row and we love it down there. It’s fun.

Glen – That’s nice. Wait till I take you up to the mountains here though.

Joey – I can imagine. I’ve never been, I’ve never been, I’ve only been to California once. I’ve never been to Oregon, never been to Washington, never been up in that part of the Sierra. So definitely looking forward to that.

Glen – It’s pretty nice. And then, I don’t know, in other projects, I mean, I’m talking with Carol at Thruer about doing a hike that’ll be videoed. Because I often, you know, people, they can watch the What’s in My Pack videos, but it’s different than, I wish everyone just like, let’s go out for three days. And you can see like how five-pound base pack weight actually works. And I have everything you have. I’m just as comfortable as you are. I’m just as safe as you are. but I have a fraction of the weight. And so, our thought is she has a bunch of thru-hiker friends that want to get lighter. And so, we’re thinking of getting a little trip together and then having a video guy along so, you know, could reach more people and they could kind of see on an extended basis, like how everything works. That’d be great. Working on that. We’d like to take Wally through Alaska on the Dempster Highway to the Arctic Circle. Actually, I’m in touch with the guys who I rode across the country with in nineteen seventy-six. And there’s talk of doing a fifty year complete the loop trip to get it on our bicycles going from west to east. Still got to enroll Francie in that. She’s like, yeah, she’s not a fan of me being gone that long. So, I got a year to work on it. Yeah. And then I’m thinking of like study guide kind of companions to the book, maybe a faith-based one, a leadership-based one. And then maybe a short book on the power of handwritten notes, something like that. I don’t know. Those are just rattling around.

Joey – Amazing. I look forward to it now. You do have an Instagram, but you’re not on there a whole lot. You don’t post a lot on Instagram. The best way to keep up with you is through your website, GlennVanPesky.com. So, I want to encourage everybody to check that out. And a lot of the stuff that you’ve shared, seen on here. That’s where I got my information from. So, you can get more information on that, along with a lot of, a lot of videos and things like that. So, make sure and get on there and, and do that and keep up with it. Read the book, read the book. It is incredible. It’s life changing. You will get things out of there that, um, great examples to follow. And I truly appreciate that. And I appreciate you again for being on here and we’ve gone way over time, but I had to make use of this time and I apologize for keeping you so long and asking you too many questions. I appreciate that. But I want to thank everybody for joining us on the podcast. We had several people get on here. We had a lot of people on Instagram that watching this live that didn’t get a chance to comment or anything like that. But anyway, thank you for being here. And I just want to say, I look forward to meeting you one day. And I can promise you this. If we ever get a chance to hike together, which I hope and pray that we do, I got dibs on your wag bag. I got it. I got dibs. Oh, I love it. Hey, everybody, have a wonderful week. Glenn, stick around. And we appreciate it, but we’re going to end this live stream. Thank you so much for joining us. Everybody, have a wonderful week.