The following is a LIVE interview that I did with Will Thompson.  Will also known as FLOW for “going with the flow” has ridden his bicycle all over and world and is about to leave to head to Kenya to do more of the same.  We dive off into the world of travel via bicycle and I learn as this has become a new passion of mine!

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE – LIVE WITH WILL FLOW THOMPSON

LIVE with Will FLOW Thompson

Joey – Hey everyone, and you are joining us on the Overland Podcast. This is a live recording, so we are doing this video and we’re doing it audio as well. So, you may be watching this, but this is where we are. For years, we’ve been traditionally a vehicle-based camping podcast, but… Now we’re spreading out. We’re growing our wings. We’re doing some things because we have figured out that as long as we are traveling, we’re doing other things. We’re bikepacking. We’re backpacking. We’re walking. We’re fishing, fly fishing, doing all kinds of things just to get outdoors because we love the outdoors, even if it’s just camping. No, we’re not in RVs, but that’s what we’re doing. But the reason that there are so many away amazing ways to explore our planet um that’s why we want to spread out no matter what method you use you’re traveling pretty much overland and that’s what we are called um so we do all kinds of things and uh one of the things that my wife and I have recently gotten into is riding bikes and I really wanted to explore uh this bike packing thing I came across some videos on YouTube and it kind of caught me off guard and I’m like they’re pretty much just overlanding on bicycles and uh I can’t describe a better way for it and so I wanted to come on and bring somebody who is actually living this life now there are people out there who and I’m going to talk to Will about this, who are out there doing a lot of videos, a lot of YouTube, a lot of posting, a lot of this stuff. And sometimes it seems like they’re in it for the likes, the views, and not really in it for the lifestyle. You know, Will is a little different from what I’ve seen. So, I want to bring him on and have him join me. So today on the podcast, we have Will Flo Thompson. Will, thank you for joining us on the podcast.

Will – Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here.

Joey – Yeah, I’m glad that you’re here. All the way up in New York, you’re joining us. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Where are you from? What do you do? As much as you want us to know.

Will – Yeah, sure. Let’s see. I was born and raised in Mamaroneck, New York, where I am currently. Right now, in my childhood home and I went to school in Vermont um just happened to be wearing this St Michael’s lacrosse shirt and then uh I moved out west after I finished uh university and lived in Bellingham Washington for about a year and then I traveled on and um ended up back in New York lived here for a couple of years and then found myself back in Bellingham, Washington. And for about the last five plus years, I’ve been working in special education. And throughout these last eleven years, I have been bike touring and bike packing whenever I can. So it’s kind of been like a cycle of working and riding.

Joey – How did you develop a love for bikes and all the kinds? I see you do all kinds of mountain bike, road bike, you’ve bike toured. How did that become a part of your life and a love that you do?

Will – That’s a great question. I think I always loved biking. I remember my first bike as a, as a child and, um, going, you know, from the training wheels to the coaster breaks and learning how to. I don’t know how to ride a bicycle on my street out here. And being the youngest in the family, I would receive my brother’s hand-me-down bikes. And I remember my brother going out mountain biking with his friends. And I use that in quotation marks because it’s not the world of mountain biking or the trail systems at other places in the world, like in the Pacific Northwest, but it’s all we knew and it was amazing and it still is. And so, receiving his hand-me-down bikes and then that freedom that the bicycle always gave me. it’s really never left me. And I was late to get my license in high school. I lived close to the high school and I was always that kid showing up to school on his bike, showing up to parties on the weekend on his bike. I was always on the bike. And yeah, the freedom and joy that it brought me has… has never has never gone away I think it’s just those childhood not memories those childhood experiences of cycling and that was just what I loved and I remember you know you can go up and down the street and then you could go around the block and then you could go to the other street. You could go down Rockland Avenue and down Baldwin and come back around. And as a child, my world was getting bigger and bigger and bigger, block by block by block, and all from the seat of a bicycle. So that’s really how I got into it. And that never left.

Joey – That’s so interesting. You know, my wife and I, it was, it was a few years ago that, I was out of shape, overweight and was doing on the treadmill and the, you know, the doc got to a point where the doctor said, okay, you’re either going to have a stroke or you’re going, uh, you’re going to get in shape. So, I decided to get in shape and, um, you know, start walking on the treadmill and then realize that, oh man, hiking is so much more fun. than walking on the treadmill you get outside you see things you know and I got out and started walking a mile and you know we started doing hikes a mile here two miles here three miles here and then here we are years later and my wife just asked me last night she’s like okay so where do you want to where do you want to where do you want to walk where do you want to ride uh this fall you know when it when it gets cooler and the weather’s better And I said, I don’t know. And I listed off some hikes. And she said, when did ten miles become your minimum? You know, she said, we used to do like a mile. And so, we’re just we’re getting longer. You know, we’re getting longer. We will see different things. And so that’s interesting the way that you put it about getting block by block by block and just open it up. And now you’re just if you look on your Instagram page, you’re all over the world, you know, and we’ll talk about your travel here in just a minute. Do you have any other hobbies that we don’t know about? I did see a picture today of you in a hockey uniform.

Will – Yeah, I grew up playing hockey and lacrosse and then played men’s league hockey for a while. No longer really do that. Not living here in New York anymore. I do love backpacking as well. And hiking, scrambling in the Cascades, do a lot of that with my buddy Bob. He gets me out there. He’s always like, you want to go do Black Peak this weekend? And I’m like, no, I’m going to go biking. And he’s like, Will, you bike every day. Just come hiking. And I’m like, okay. I reluctantly do it, and I love it. And so, I’m happy that he gets me out there and changes things up. But that’s pretty much it, biking and hiking.

Joey – That’s cool. You mentioned Vermont, going to school in Vermont. We talked off air. My wife and I took a tour of the Northeast this fall, this summer. And I do believe that Vermont is now one of my favorite states.

Will – It is so beautiful.

Joey – It was… It was absolutely incredible to go up there and see the White Mountains and Mount Washington and going over and crossing over into in Vermont and the other states that were around it was it was actually an incredible beautiful place up there everywhere you go everywhere you go uh absolutely loved it cannot wait to go back plus Vermont has a cheese tour and we went on the cheese tour and it was incredible we went to several little places so I highly encourage people to look that up if you go up there.  How did you get the name flow tell me about the name flow I assume this is like a like a backpacker has a trail name the bike packing is the same way so how did that come about?

Will – so if this is actually from the cross team it’s really funny that I’m wearing this shirt I haven’t worn it in years and I just took it out of my drawer and I had showed up to college freshman year for the lacrosse team and, uh, had long hair and the lacrosse, the lacrosse bros nicknamed me flow. And then that nickname just stuck. Uh, it’s not my, not my trail name. I had, I got a trail name on the Appalachian trail boom box, but, um, I found out I liked biking better than hiking, so I didn’t make it very far.

Joey – That’s the one you stuck with, huh?

Will – Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, they just nicknamed me Flo, and I went to a small school, two thousand kids, so everyone knew me as Flo. And, yeah, which is kind of – friends in New York know me as Willie T. My college buddies call me, you know, Will or Will Flo, so it just kind of stuck.

Joey – That’s awesome. Well, it’s, it’s cool to be known by something that you, that you can actually, you know, go with. And I love that a lot of people, the names that they’re given, uh, you know, they, I was, I was the professor for a long time because I taught college classes, but then I guess I said bro too much. And then they called me the Brofessor and it has stuck for years. I just cannot get rid of it. So that’s it. Let’s talk about your bike. Now, I’ve seen pictures of a couple different ones on your Instagram page. Is there one that you normally stick to when you travel now?

Will – Yes and no. When I’m doing my international bike tours, always take my Tumbleweed Prospector. It’s a full rigid mountain bike. that is suitable with, with large tires. And so that with the internal roll off hub, and that is a really sturdy beam. That’s great for rough terrain. And if I’m doing more of a, gravel oriented or road-oriented tour I’ll take my panorama Katahdin uh carving gravel bike uh just kind of depends on the tour and the terrain but primarily uh if I’m going minus Scandinavia, it will be the tumbleweed prospect

Joey – Okay, I think I’ve got a picture of it. That’s the tumbleweed that you’re talking about right there.

Will – Oh, yeah, that’s it.

Joey – Full rigid mountain bike, so it does have like a flat bar mountain bike. It doesn’t have the traditional gravel bike bars on it. Yeah. And you do like the fat tires rather than the skinny tires when you’re traveling overseas like that.

Will – Without suspension, the three-inch tires just kind of give it more cushion. I could put a front fork, a small front fork on it, but I love the simplicity of it. That’s the stock build that it came with. That’s the first-generation Prospector that he, Daniel, the owner and builder who came out with them in two years ago. I love it.

Joey – Where is that bike company located at?

Will – He is currently in Idaho. In Idaho.

Joey – Okay. Well, in the world of travel, whenever you want to get from point A to point B, this is probably the most important piece of equipment that you own. It has to be reliable, has to be dependable. You have to know it inside and out because sometimes you’re not only traveler, you’re also repairman on it a lot of times. So, you know your bike inside and out. You know everything about it. Can you fix it on the road if something happens? Do you carry spare parts and things like that for it?

Will – I’ll be honest with you. It’s a little embarrassing. For as much as I’ve toured, I should be more mechanically inclined. If I had a catastrophic failure, I could not fix it. Like if my brake line snapped or, well, I have hydraulic brakes on that now, so it’s a whole different story even if it was mechanical brakes. I can do simple fixes, but if it was a major failure, I would not be able to repair it. That was one of the reasons I wanted to get the tumbleweed with the internal rear hub so I don’t have to deal with the derailleur and a cassette. It’s all in there internally in the rear hub. I don’t have to worry about my derailleur getting bent and have to finagle with that and stuff and all those other mechanisms that can fail. Um, so that was one of the selling points of the prospector was, um, the simplicity of the roll off hub and not having, you know, the chance of a mechanical.

Joey – Yeah. Is that your dream bike? The bike that you have? So, so let me, let me put this out there to you. If money was no object and you could buy whatever you want, as far as bikes are concerned, what would you be riding today?

Will – I don’t know. I don’t know. Cause I’m not like a, I’m not a gear head or anything. But I would say like maybe some titanium bike. Cause I know those are really, those are really expensive.

Joey – Really expensive. You know, it’s crazy what bikes are selling for these days. I mean, you could, you could, there’s some bikes you could buy a car for or buy a car cheaper than a lot of bikes. So, you know, guys like me and you on a limited budget, limited income, there’s some things that we only dream about. We’ll never be able to own unless, you know, we get big and famous and somebody wants to give us one. Cause even if I was rich, I don’t know if I could spend that much money on a bike, but I mean, even if, if that’s your number one thing that you do and number one thing that you love, then there’s always a dream of something.

Will – I’d have to get back to you on that because I don’t know. I don’t, know enough about, I mean, there are a lot of beautiful, sweet bikes coming out by, by independent builders and everything. You’re right.

Joey – And you know, I see some all the time, you know, and I guess social media has really driven that because there used to be only four or five major bike brands out there. And if you had one, you had the bike, but now it seems like there’s hundreds and there’s, you know, just boutique shops going out, uh, all over the, all over the place, uh, putting out good products.

Will – Yeah. And I, you know, I, this is my, my other bike. It’s my, only my second full suspension bike I’ve ever owned. And, I say this is, this is the greatest bike in the world because it’s all I know. You know, this tumbleweed prospector, it’s all I know and it’s never failed me. So. it’s the best bike in the world. And that’s, you know, I’m half kidding. And, but it’s, that’s, It’s my opinion, but it’s, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s what it is.

Joey – I totally get it. You know, and I was totally satisfied with what I had until a buddy of mine, he had a, it was a specialized, but it was a, it was one of those real expensive carbon e-bikes. It was like an eight-thousand-dollar deal. And I’m like, man, I don’t need an e-bike. You know, I like the old school style stuff. And, you know, and he gave me this big, long spiel about, you know, I can ride fifty miles in the same day that you ride twenty miles because I have something helping me and I can see that much more stuff. I said, well, that makes sense. That makes sense. So, I got on it and I tried it out. And man, that thing took off like a rocket. And I was like, I don’t know about this. You’re not really working. It’s not really for me. So anyway, I’m with you. Mine is my favorite. Mine is my favorite. I love it. I’ve got an old Niner. It’s about a tank. It’s heavy. I think I could drop it off the Empire State Building. It wouldn’t bend it. It’s just a tank. And I love it because… It doesn’t have suspension on it. It has the thick tires on it. I got a Jones bar going across the front that I love.

Will – Comfy.

Joey – Yeah, so it is comfy. So anyway, I’m getting there. And I’m coming at you like, man, this is all new to me, and I want to sit here and learn as much as I can because I’m just getting into this, and I don’t want to screw up. I want to learn before I go anywhere. So, let’s talk gear. You said you’re not a gearhead, but you’ve got some pretty cool packs on your bike that you take with you. Tell me about the packs that are on your bike that you use, that you like.

Will – Well, yeah, I have multiple different setups, and I’ve been fortunate enough to get a lot of different bags from certain bag companies. And I had a setup from Arkel Panniers. They’re an outfit based out of Quebec, up in Canada. And I toured with their bags on the European Divide Trail, a hundred percent waterproof, really solid attachment system, a great company. And I’ve had bags from a small, uh, independent mom and pop shop in Bellingham, Washington called Loam Equipment. And they made me a custom frame bag and I’ve used their seat pack and their handlebar bag. And, um, Alan and his wife Rachel are awesome incredible people they make amazing gear and yeah that’s the uh that’s the loam equipment setup right there so it’s there that’s the custom frame bag they made me and that’s cool the seat pack and the handlebar bag and um I’ve rode with a lot of different bags and their attachment system on the seat pack had like no wobble, really, really, beautifully designed stuff. That’s cool. And they’re wonderful folks and love getting people out there on bikes. And I recently just got a rack for my Tumbleweed Prospector. And on this upcoming tour, I’ll go with two rear panniers just because I’ll need more carrying capacity. I’ve been playing around with different setups for years and years and I’m always evolving and I too am always learning and changing the setup and it keeps it interesting and exciting and what works and what doesn’t. If I think I have it figured out, I don’t and then I’ll start rearranging my stuff. My tent poles will live in my frame bag and then maybe I’ll put them in my handlebar bag. That doesn’t work. So, it’s fun.

Joey – Yeah, it is fun. It is fun. It’s, you know, when I got into overlanding, I had an FJ Cruiser that was just totally stock. And I had little idea of what the cult following was and what overlanding was. And when I saw the vehicle-based camping and how you can live out of your car, I fell in love with it because I love camping. I love hiking. I love backpacking. I love, you know, getting into the outdoors, off-roading, all this other stuff. So, building a vehicle is right up my alley. It’s putting everything in there. I built, I built, I did a rear seat delete, took the rear seats out, put storage in. I put a refrigerator in, I put a kitchen in, you know, built a kitchen and, and it’s got a rooftop tent where we sleep and it’s got hot water. It’s got running water. It’s got, air conditioner. It’s got a shower. It’s got everything in this one little course. And so, putting a vehicle together is a lot like building your bicycle setup. You are carrying everything that you need to live. And it’s a lot like backpacking as well, because just like having it on your back, you’re carrying everything that you need to live for a certain amount of time. And you are self-sufficient for a certain amount of time. And so, building a bike is, just completely enthralls me I love it the way that I love going and looking through Instagram and seeing because every bike is specific to its owner. They build it what’s comfortable for them, what they need. And I see your setup has changed just a little bit, but it’s pretty much stayed pretty much the same over time. Now that you’re going to be having panniers, that’s going to change that up a little bit from the aero packs that you had.

Will – For sure. Yeah. So, I have panniers on mine in the front and the back, but I think I’ve actually got too much space. Have you found that you’ve actually carried too much space for what gear that you have? Have you ever run into that before? Not particularly. I definitely know what you’re saying. I mean, I think I’ve had times where I… like that picture from that, from that Oaxaca Mexico trip, I had, the front, the front forks, um, were more, yeah, they, that, you know, was, I, what am I trying to say is I was expecting I would have to carry more food than I did. So, I did have more carrying capacity than, than needed. But hey, it’s always nice to have, to have more than, than you need.

Joey – Sure. Extra space. Less than less than you need. Yeah. And an empty bag really doesn’t weigh that much. And so that’s, that’s really not that bad. So, on this setup right here, you’ve got the seat pack. Yeah. You’ve got the frame bag. You’ve got the stuff in the front and the stuff on the forks. What is, what is where, where are you carrying different items on this, on this bike right now?

Will – Okay. So, my, Sleep system is in the rear. okay pack which would be my sleeping pad my sleeping bag yeah, my tiny inflatable pillow um and then probably like some layers okay and then in the in the handlebar bag is my tent and probably like an easily accessible layer like a raincoat or an extra mid layer and then um in the Fork bags is my stove and probably my… Yeah, so like food, probably some other layers as well. And my kitchen setup I was carrying. On that trip, I was carrying a pound of coffee.

Joey – I’ll get into that here in a minute. That interests me. That’s part of my notes.

Will – Nice. And then in the frame bag is like tools and miscellaneous items, water bladder for extra storage. extra water carrying capacity, and snacks and stuff.

Joey – Snacks. Do you ever carry anything on your back? Do you ever carry a backpack when you’re riding?

Will – I wear a fanny pack a lot or what they call a hip pack these days. But I really don’t like to ride with a backpack just because of the sweat on your back and stuff. Yeah. there will definitely be trips that I will do in the future that are more mtb focused and you know or alpine mtb focused and I will I will wear a backpack um but for now I’ve never did a long-distance tour with the with the backpack

Joey – so you’re you have a water bladder that’s in your frame pack

Will – yeah just like a two-liter MSR water bladder that my, there’s a certain name, like kind of like a platypus. That’s not the right name, but, um, but yeah. Uh, and my, my aunt bought it for me years ago and, you know, she’s, she’s not an outdoor person, but it’s really nice that every time I take it out, I think of her and I’ll, if I get service, I’ll, I’ll send her a text message and just be like, Hey, thanks a lot, aunt Tina. You know, you’re, you’re saving my life right now.

Joey – Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, on the coffee thing, I see you love coffee. Um, what, how do you make your coffee normally? I’ve seen an, I saw arrow press in one of your, uh, things. Uh, how do you normally make it? What’s your, what’s your method?

Will – so at home or um out on the trail

Joey – out on the trail okay

Will – so depending on depending on the trip uh I’ve used the instant coffee packets um which are which are quite good the Starbucks ones or the something alpine um They sell them at REI. They’re green. So just the instant coffee packets. I also have, which I can’t find right now, like an MSR coffee filter. It’s a plastic filter. Really, really lightweight. And put the coffee grounds in there and add the water. And then I also, a long time ago, I had a GSI, uh, coffee filter set up, which was really lightweight, but kind of flimsy. And it was, it was a pain to, to clean the grounds out. So, uh, most recently I’ve really been enjoying that MSR. I think it’s just called the MSR coffee filter and just kind of put it in the, and it has like the arms that hang on the top of the top, top of the mug. and pour the hot water.

Joey – So it’s a pour over.

Will – Yeah, it’s a pour over. Yeah.

Joey – Okay, cool. I noticed that you really do enjoy local coffees. When you travel out of the country and you go to different places, if you can find a local coffee, you’re all about it. And I’m the same way.

Will – I am, man. Getting the local food, the local coffee, that is immersing yourself into the culture about as much as you can. And I absolutely love that.

Joey – Yeah. It’s so good. That’s what it’s all about. You’re right. You’re right. And I love that you told me how many pounds of coffee you were carrying because I’d be the same way

Will – because I mean it was it was overkill but I was in Oaxaca and I was like oh I’m going to because I know a lot in my experiences in in central and South America a lot of those smaller communities they don’t have um a large coffee selection they the locals drink instant coffee and you know which I don’t which I don’t have a problem with at all I just traveled in Ecuador for a month without a stove so I drank a lot of a lot of instant coffee and then it was always such a treat when I get to a larger town and I could have more um let’s call it artisan coffee yeah but uh in in Oaxaca I was like oh let me before I leave Oaxaca and go into the into the sierras let me uh get a uh a coffee or rather a bag of coffee so I went to a roaster and um I was trying to, and I, you know, I speak some Spanish, but I didn’t know how to say, uh, you know, ground coffee rather than, rather than whole bean coffee.

Joey – You don’t carry a grinder with you everywhere you go?

Will – I’m definitely not a coffee snob. I love coffee, but I’m not a coffee snob. So, um, yeah. And, and they grounded up for me and, and, and I took that on the road. So, it is always good to, good to have that, that sash.

Joey – I love it. Well, I’ve, I’ve done just about everything. You know, on Amazon, you can get the throwaway pour over filters you can get the tea bags where you can put it in there and do the tea bags and stuff but it’s really hard to beat the instant as far as the light lightweight and easy to carry and you’re right it used to not it used to not be great because when I was a kid I would see my grandfather I’d get up and you know my granny be cooking breakfast and he’d be sitting there with his Nescafe and he’d be pouring grounds in hot water and I was like that don’t look good at all you know what in the world And he’d drink that every day, you know, in this cafe. I’ll never forget that. But, but now the, the instant coffee is good. It’s really good. And, you know, you, you figure out how much water you need per packet and it’s, it’s not bad at all. So, you said you went to Ecuador, you didn’t carry a stove. I noticed that you drank some coffee and you put it in water that was not hot. Did you drink cold instant coffee in the mornings?

Will – No, no, I would. The thing about Ecuador actually was I was cycling for about thirty days and I used my tent one night and every other every other night I found accommodation. And so, I would stay. I didn’t I didn’t wild camp at all. Like I said, one night and everybody travels different. And I understand that and I respect it. And for me, I enjoy if it’s in the budget, going to a town, getting a hot meal and some warm accommodation. So that was how the trip ended up panning out. And so I would just drink hot coffee in town.

Joey – I love it. What other pieces of gear do you travel with that you love? What’s your tent? What kind of tent do you use?

Will – I have a Big Agnes. What is it called? Big Agnes. It’s like a fly type. Oh, sorry. Big Agnes Tiger Wall. The tiger wall. The tiger wall.

Joey – Yeah. I see that one a lot. And, you know, going from backpacking to bikepacking, that’s going to be probably the only thing that I’m going to have to change. Most of my backpacking stuff will, will move across the spectrum into bikepacking because it’s light, it’s small, but for bikepacking, you don’t carry trekking poles and all of my tents are trekking pole tents. And so, to get something that’s freestanding, I’ve been looking at the Big Agnes.

Will – Those seem to be the most popular ones that are out there as far as weight is concerned. And there’s some sales going on that I saw recently online and stuff. I got mine on sale. I really try not to buy anything full price.

Joey – No, never. Never. Always looking for sales. I stock up on Black Friday. You can get good stuff then. You said you didn’t carry a stove with you, but when you do, what kind of stove do you carry?

Will – I have, depending on where I am really, so I’ve carried an alcohol stove in certain parts of the world. If I’m in North America, I’ll carry just a, I have a tiny little, my buddy got it for me. It’s like ten dollars on Amazon. It’s like Think of it like the MSR Pocket Rocket, but so much smaller and lighter and just screws right onto the white gas canister. So, I’ve been using that for a while. And it’s so small and light that you could even carry an additional one if you were on a long tour where white gas was readily available in case something happened because it’s a little bit cheaper. And so pretty much either no stove, an alcohol stove, or the small little screw on canister.

Joey – And do you decide what you take depending on the availability of fuel?

Will – Exactly. Yeah. Depending on where I’m going in the world and depending on the tour and the availability of services and kind of what setup I’m trying to go with, that’ll make my decision. So, if I’m going somewhere that those, uh, gas canisters that we have here in North America are not available. I won’t be bringing any, any sort of stove that is that compatibility.

Joey – I noticed you use a; I believe it’s a Garmin edge.

Will – my computer, my computer. Yeah. Oh, I have a, yeah, I have a Wahoo. Okay. It’s a Wahoo. Yeah. I used the Garmin edge, uh, years ago.

Joey – Maybe it was an older picture that I saw that.

Will – Yeah. And then now I have a Wahoo, um, it’s held up really great. Sometimes I think like two days in Ecuador, I had to like turn it on and turn it back, turn it off and turn it back on for the GPS to load. But which, you know, which can be frustrating, but that’s such a small little nuisance.

Joey – Have you had any issues with it working overseas in any other countries?

Will – No, no. Aside from just like, yeah. Waiting for the, the GPS. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s about like, yeah. Like I said, two days just kind of had to acquire the signals, you know, took, took a couple of minutes, turn it off, turn it on with patience.

Joey – Yeah. Patience. Yeah. Seems like a pray for that every day. Uh, what about food? Do you, what food do you take, uh, snacks and stuff, uh, and food that you’re going to cook? What do you normally pack?

Will – Um, it’s usually different, different every trip, but, uh, my, my buddy and his wife, they gave me a bunch of quest bars before, before I left on my last tour. So those kind of held me over, um, when I was in a pinch and I’ll, you know, try to get, like I said, depending on where I’m going, but I’ll try to get some, some bars here in the United States and, and, and pack those in the bag. And I’ll usually carry like a, a mountain house as an emergency meal. And I had the granola one, so I didn’t have to have hot water for that. So, if I am carrying a stove, I’ll probably bring one or two emergency mountain house meals. And then in country, I’ll grab some tortillas and some other tortillas.

Joey – peanut butter yeah it seems to be the go-to thing is tortillas and peanut butter

Will – a lot of a lot of protein and you you’d be surprised how expensive peanut butter is in certain countries but yeah, I’ve made I’ve made food mistakes before I remember on the European Divide Trail I didn’t bring a stove and I was sick of my food on day three that didn’t go see that a lot It’s hard to read Swedish and Norwegian. And I bought some of the wrong stuff. It was not what I thought it was. But yeah, I made it through, kind of just swallowed it down. It was like these pastes. I remember this one, like in particular, it was called like bacon paste. Yeah, I put that on the tortilla. It was pretty brutal. And I’m not a foodie or a food snob, but I’ll break this thing. So, I was always grateful to get to town and eat some proper food. So that was a trip, honestly, that I wish I… I carried a stove on, but I did run into, uh, an amazing gentleman from, from France, my buddy Damien and, and we cycled on and off together for, for a while. And, um, as a, as a classic Frenchman, he was cooking elaborate meals and, um, I was very, very lucky to be, to be, um, with him and, sharing hot coffee. This guy, he was slicing up peppers in the backcountry. He had Parmesan cheese.

Joey – That’s a nice person to meet on the trail and befriend.

Will – Yeah, it sure was. Here’s this American with bacon paste.

Joey – Did you try to trade him? Here, use this. I’ll trade you some.

Will – I tried.

Joey – Oh my goodness. I love it. I love it. Well, travel is such a huge part of this lifestyle. There are so many places in the world that you can travel, on a bicycle. And I had no idea, you know, until I started watching YouTube and, um, you know, seeing about, uh, and I’ve got a book about the hundred best bicycle trips in the world, you know, and, and I look through here and see this. And, um, I watched a video, uh, of uh I think it was Liam Gardner was his name he traveled from Alaska to Argentina on his bike and then some of his buddies flew down to South America took him a bunch of bike parts because he had broken his derailleur and he was on a single speed for like three hundred miles in in Central America and so they fixed his bike and then they went fly fishing for a little while and then they all sent their stuff home and then he rode to the tip because he wanted to ride to the tip and, um, it just blew my mind about all the different things that you could, that you could do, you know, the things that you could travel, the ways that you could travel, the things that you could do. Um, and it was just incredible. So, um, there’s so many places you can go. How do you decide where you want to go next? Do you have a list? You have a bucket list of people, uh, places that you want to places that you want to go?

Will – Yeah. Uh, not written down anywhere but I definitely got a long list of places and keeps growing and changing and um most recently I’ve been, well I wanted to do the trans Ecuador for a long time and it was always it was always it was always on my mind and For me, I’ll look at a route, I’ll do some research, and I’ll look at those seasons and working in education. For a while, it was always dependent on the summer season. of, of, uh, then between the months of, you know, end of June.

Joey – Yeah. Same with me. Same with me. So, June and July, I’m just like, don’t call me. Don’t, don’t, don’t do anything. Cause I’m going to be gone. I’m disappearing from normal world. This is when I travel. And Central America is a great place to go in our summer because it’s, if you get down towards the equator, it’s winter down there and it’s a lot cooler.

Will – Exactly.

Joey – So yeah, I was wondering why Ecuador. So, tell me about the Trans-Ecuador.

Will – So, yeah, it was just I was thinking about it for a while. And, you know, it’s like, OK, you can’t go to you can’t go to Spain in August. So, you know, that’s out. Yeah. Too hot. And looked at the if it was the right time to ride it. And then I look at flights and I look at flights to, you know, I was looking I was also thinking about Peru, you know, and so I was looking at flights to Lima and I was looking at flights to Quito and other places around the world. And When I find an affordable flight and I sit and I really, really think about it, and as soon as I book that flight, I’m going. And then from there, everything else will fall into place. But once I commit, financially commit with the flight, because… I when I say I’m going to do something, I do it. So, you know, I’ll be like, oh, I’m thinking about going to Ecuador. Oh, I was looking at the router, you know, or anything like that. But, you know, once it’s, once that, that flight is booked, it’s, it’s, it’s happening, you know, or else I’ll, or else I’ll have to lose that money. So, we have pretty, pretty much just like a little bit of research, uh, based on, based on the weather. And then, um, also more recently I’ve been, um, traveling based on, where the American dollar can, can go.

Joey – Yeah, exactly. Which is not very far these days. It seems like, um, do you ever, do you ever like get a contact there or do you plan all of your routes when you go overseas? Do you plan all of your routes yourself? And you’re just like, I’m going here. This is where I need to start. This is where I need to finish. Or do you get a contact over there, somebody to help you out to try to make sure you’re on the right, track or everything goes well. Um, how, how does that work?

Will – Uh, that’s a great question. And, different answer for different, different places around, around the globe. But for the, for the trans Ecuador, I followed the route from bikepacking.com. So, they have a lot of, a lot of resources on there, you know, points of interest. And this town has this in it, you know, small, small Tienda, small store. This town has full resupply restaurants. you know, grocery store markets. And so that helps you pinpoint what services are out there. And, I mean, it makes navigation a breeze. I mean, you’ve got a GPS, you know, downloaded on your phone or your bike computer, and it makes it for really simple navigational travel and peace of mind. And for the upcoming trip, I’ve been reaching out to a lot of contacts that I found on Instagram that have cycled there. Or I’m reaching out to Warm Showers contacts, the people who host Touring Cyclists, or reaching out to cycling organizations, Bureau of Tourism, any contact that I can reach out to. family members or rather family friends who have traveled and to that part of the world and I’ll reach out to them and then they’ll put me into contact with someone they know or tell me about their experiences there so just really using everything that I that I have available to me available to me in my in my arsenal to try to figure out these things because yeah for a lot of A lot of places around the world, I’ll do a little bit of research, and I get there, and no pun intended, I go with the flow, and it’s always worked out. And I believe it always will, but I just think some places require more preparation for logistics.

Joey – I agree. I actually was going to bring up the website, and I’ve got it downloaded on my phone. The bikepacking.com is amazing. The information that’s on there that you can get on there, and it is worldwide. There are so many things and so many routes that are being uploaded. it’s just blowing up. It seems like every day.

Will – Yeah. It’s an amazing resource. I’ve been proud to be a member since, since day one, since they started the collective. So, I get the bike packing journals twice a year in the mail. It’s a beautiful publication. And just really, really happy to, to support those, those folks over there. Cause they, they, they do a lot for just for the, for the, not for the industry, but for the, for the bike packing family.

Joey – Yeah. Have you released to anybody anywhere where you’re about to go?

Will – Not online, just friends and family. I’m going to flying into Nairobi, Kenya, and I will be doing a cycle route in Kenya. And then from there, I’ll be cycling south. Not sure where I’ll end up. Just going to take it day by day, play it by ear. if I’m tired and sick and done, I’ll come home. If I’m having a good time, I’ll keep traveling south. The goal would be to bike from Kenya to South Africa. That’s the main goal. Like I said, if I say I’m going to do something, I do it. I’m not saying I’m cycling to South Africa. I’m just going to go to Africa and see how it goes. That’s what I was saying earlier about the more logistics, the more planning. I got my yellow fever vaccine. And I just feel like I can’t go to show up to Africa like I could show up to South America. I think there’s just certain hurdles and obstacles that one faces when you’re cycling on a different continent. uh yeah, I totally get that I totally get that you know you just got to this is where I’m going to start and the ending is kind of up in the air, we’ll see what happens you know I just have to do I have to do more research you know there’s yeah you know the yellow like I said the vaccine and just the border crossings and the visas yeah little things like that

Joey – yeah that’s incredible what drew you to Kenya out of all the places in the world while there

Will – Yeah. Once again, I found a really cheap flight. Oh, wow. Yeah. That really kind of was like, ooh. And I sat on that for a while. I didn’t book it, but I was like, ooh. And then I was just kind of like, okay, where can I go at this time of year? Right. So, kind of the northern hemisphere was locked off with the incoming fall and winter. And then I thought about Spain. and thought about some, like, uh, um, looked at like a flight to Kathmandu and that was, that was quite expensive. And I just kind of was like, I’ve always wanted to go to Africa. And after just, you know, completing the trans Ecuador, uh, which was, which was a really physically demanding route. Um, I was like, I, I think I’m ready. And I think I was off that off that high, uh, from, from the trans Ecuador and I didn’t, kind of, I was telling you earlier off air, I didn’t get a teaching job. So, um, I was like, okay, I can sit, you know, not sit around. I could be in Washington state or I could, you know, I still have a little bit of money in the bank. So let me maybe capitalize on this and, uh, go to Africa. It was like a pretty, um, um, what’s the word that I want to use here? It was a pretty, um, quick decision. Yeah. Um, just cycling today. I was kind of, kind of keeps hitting me. I’m like, wow, you’re going to Africa. Oh man. That’s so neat. Yeah. And, and the, the trans Kenya, uh, um, or I’m sorry, the Kenya bikepacking odyssey. It was originally called the trans Kenya, but it doesn’t go across the country, but that’s about thousand kilometer, six hundred fifty-mile route, um, that, that I’ll be following for the beginning of the trip.

Joey – That’s awesome. I love it. Any more trips? Um, so I’ll go back to the same question I asked you about the bike. If the, if money was no object, which it all the, all the time is, but if money was no object, and you have a dream trip, where would you go? Dream trip, money was no, I would say like the

Will – Alps. Swiss. Yeah, the Swiss, the French, the Italian Alps.

Joey – And money would have to be no object because it’s so expensive there. And that part of Europe, it’s just outrageous. Exactly. I’ve never been there.

Will – Yeah, me too, dude. That’s why you’re like… Why are you going to Ecuador? Because the dollar goes a lot further than the Swiss Alps.

Joey – I’ve been to Africa before, and you exchange a hundred dollars U.S., and they give you a suitcase full of money. And you go to that part of Europe, and they give you some coins. It’s totally different. It’s crazy cool. That’s awesome. I want to… I believe that… I want to switch gears a little bit. I saw something today. Of course, I did all my research on your Instagram. That’s where I get to know people, you know, wherever they’re at. I believe that health is a huge part of what we do. It makes what we love easy or it makes it hard and greatly affects our quality of life. The amount of joy that we have in what we do. Do you train for your passion of bikepacking? I know you said you rode around today. Do you just do that because you love to do it, or do you count that as training?

Will – Not really. not like training that you would, that you would, uh, think of as like a, as like a serious cyclist. You know, I know, I know guys and girls out there who are on the, who are on their trainer in their house and who like, you know, hook up their heart rate monitors and stuff and, and do like strength training and interval training and then proper cycling training. Um, I just, I just ride my bike. Um, and I do some, some stretching and yoga definitely need to do more of that. But, um, no, I don’t, uh, I don’t, I don’t train. I just, I just ride my bike and all sorts of different bikes, you know, all, all, like you were saying earlier, all just all different disciplines.

Joey – Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes, sometimes I look at, um, you know, you were talking about how the Ecuador trip was a very strenuous, um, ride and, you know, I, I get on there on the backpacking apps and the bike packing apps and they rate them how hard they are and sometimes it makes me go oh I don’t you know I don’t know about that and I wonder if I’m in I wonder if I’m in shape of course I’m fifty three years old you don’t have the age that I do but uh and I’m probably in the best shape of my life because we walk every day we ride every day and we try to keep that up you know we don’t really train but we try to keep exercising so we don’t lose what we have. Right. And, uh, so that’s, that’s kind of what I mean. I know you’re not in the gym every day, but you ride often. Yeah. You know, and so that keeps us going. I also want to congratulate you as well. We’re talking on, on the health part. I saw you, you made a post about it. So, it’s not anything, uh, secret, uh, six years.

Will – Six years sober.

Joey – Six years sober. Congrats on that. That’s awesome.

Will – Thank you.

Joey – How has being sober helped fulfill this part of your life? Oh, it’s… you know, it’s, it’s just made it more enjoyable. It’s, uh, it’s really just made me more present. Um, because I used to, I used to cycle when I was a, when I was an active alcoholic, uh, you know, bike tour and everything. And, uh, my experiences are different these days, you know, well, one, I could, I can remember every moment of the, of the trip, which is really nice. I could, I know where I’m going to sleep and where I’m waking up. And, um, uh, you know, my, the interactions that I have with people are different. I’m not going to bars. I’m going to coffee shops. It just allows me to be fully there. I’m fully integrated. Like I said earlier, I’m present. Hopefully, I’m radiating energy, positive energy, energy of love that I wasn’t able to do when I was drinking. So, yeah, it’s a beautiful way to way to see the world in my in my experience. And it just it helps me be a better human being and try to do the next right thing.

Joey – Yeah, I totally agree. We can keep up with you on your Instagram @willflowthompson. Uh, if you haven’t seen that, you need to check that out. Give him a follow because I’m sure there’s going to be some pretty amazing, photos, that will be coming up there. Does it make you, and I just, I just thought of this just a minute ago? So, you’re, you’ve got your bike in a box ready to be shipped to a place that you’ve never been before. Does that make you nervous? Uh, whether it’s going to show up or not, whether it’s going to be bashed in a million pieces and you’re, and do you ever get nervous about that? Cause that makes me nervous. Just thinking about it.

Will – Yeah. I mean, I, uh, it didn’t show up for two weeks in Norway. It didn’t make it from Oslo up to Chirkenes in the north on the border with Russia. And then the airline went on strike. So that was a pretty stressful situation. But I’ve learned I’ve had to let go of a lot of shit. You know, I don’t know if this, you know, comes from learning it in, you know, a twelve-step program such as AA and stuff, but, you know, letting go and things that are out of my control. And, yeah, the box right now, it’s all beat up in the other room right there. But, you know, so I’ll have to reinforce it. And, yeah, I’m not going to lie, it’s nerve-wracking and it’s not in your hands. And so, you know, you can only pack it as best you can. And I’ve traveled the bike so much that I know that if I pack it right, like, it’s going to get beat up and it’s going to get banged up, but it’s like, I’ve been fortunate. Nothing’s ever broke. Um, yeah. And so, I think that offers me peace of mind knowing how, how I pack it. Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s a little, it’s a little stressful, but yeah, there’s like two huge holes in this, in this box here. Um, so I’ll just have to reinforce it with, with more duct tape and cardboard. And, um, Yeah, it’s got one more flight. It’s got New York to Amsterdam with a couple-hour layover, and then Amsterdam to Nairobi, Kenya. So we’re fingers crossed. Do some reinforcement. It’s a really tough bike.

Joey – Do you carry that? Are you able to check that on the plane? Does that travel with you, or do you ship it through a courier service?

Will – I almost always bring it on the plane, and I just usually charge a bicycle fee, which is like, depending on the airline, uh, a hundred, a hundred, fifty bucks. I, I got away for a long time with like not getting charged a bicycle fee, which is really nice. Um, and yeah, but this, this most recent trip, I used bike flights.com and they, they’ll, they’ll, can they, you know, we’ll ship your, your stuff all over, all over the world. Um, so through UPS and then, I thought it would be better, and then when the box showed up in the shape it did, I was like, oh, maybe I should have brought it on the plane. But it is nice not to go to the airport and go to oversized luggage and check it. It’s a big process with the bike bag, so it was nice actually to fly without that cumbersome piece of equipment. But the airlines are pretty good.

Joey – Yeah, that’s good. Well, I’ve been thinking so much, getting back to following you on Instagram. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about this whole contrast about when people do things such as bikepack or overland or backpack for whatever reason. You know, sometimes I wonder if they actually enjoy what they do or whether they do it, you know, for the views or for the… uh, for the subscribers or whatever. Um, so I wanted to ask you, uh, before we finish up, um, how do you balance posting on social media with the enjoyment of being in the moment?

Will – Yeah, I, uh, that’s a great, that’s a great question, Joe. Um, because I feel like I could, um, I feel like I could curate a bigger picture. I could curate more content if I took the time out of the moment and I set up because I do a lot of these trips solo. Yeah, you know that. So, I think I could… I think I could produce more content if I went ahead and I set up the phone and I hit record and then I could cycle that section or I could set up the phone. You know, I did it twice in Ecuador. I was on a little bit of hike-a-bike on the Trans-Ecuador, some really steep sections that are just, you can ride them or you could hike them or sometimes it just gets too steep or too windy and you’re using the same amount of energy. So, it’s nice to take your bike for a walk. And I remember one time I like went up ahead and I put the phone on a rock and I hit record and I walked back to my bike and I picked it up and I did the hike-a-bike. And then another time, within the next five minutes, I did that again, and I just was creeping up the hill. And I’ve done that on the Colorado Trail and stuff. it never, I think the, the, the social media that we see in that, in that high quality content and those, and those mountain bikers shredding the trail and stuff, um, that is like the, the, the content that we see is so professional and its so high quality and so well done and edited. And so, when I see like the, the clip that I made, um, I’m like, oh, this is, you know, this isn’t, this isn’t cool. And so, I don’t post it. And it also, it does take me out of the moment and I’ll, I’ll never stop on a downhill to get a picture of me riding. So, I’ll film some clips. I actually made a little minute and a half video of the Trans-Ecuador route, just playing around with some video edits and a voiceover. And I’ll try to get that to you. The attachment file is like, I have to figure out how to send it. Um, but I just did it on iMovie. So, I, um, yeah, it does, it does take away from, from the moment and it also with the, with the local people, you know, I would love to, um, you know, get more photos and get more, you know, get more interactions. The dream is like to you know you see some of these productions and it’s they’re they got like a crew with them you know and yeah, I think I I think that would be that would be so cool I’m not there yet but um yeah, I would love to love to you know tell my story and you know that’s what I’m doing here and I’m honored to be doing that

Joey – Well, it’s one of the things that I love about looking at your content because it really shows that you are truly living in the moment and love what you do. That’s one thing I admire about you and one of the reasons I wanted you to come on here. You know, it’s just cool. Anyway. Man, I appreciate you so much for coming on here with me. It’s been great to just sit down with you, get to know you a little bit better, just have a conversation with you. Somebody who’s doing what I aspire to do and I can learn from. And that means a lot. And I appreciate you taking your time to do that.

Will – Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, it’s a really cool, really cool experience. My first time ever doing this. So, I enjoyed it. Great. A lot of fun.

Joey – Yeah, it’s fun to just sit and talk about something that you love and getting to know other people. And I’ve thoroughly enjoyed learning from you. And I learned from pictures. I learned from talking. And I truly have gotten a lot out of this. And I want you want you to know that I appreciate you.

Will – Thank you.

Joey – Yeah. Appreciate you very much. Well, I wish you all the best in your travels to Kenya. I think it’s going to be epic, and I hope everybody will get on there and give you a follow so they can see what you’re doing because it will be worth our time to do that. Everyone, I hope you had a great time. I hope you enjoyed Will and our conversation here. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening. I hope you’ve gotten as much of it out of it as I have. This is something completely new to a lot of us. But there’s some people that are going to tune in that actually love this and can learn something as well. And I’m eager to learn more. And that’s why I wanted to have you on here. Thank you, Will, again, for being on here. I appreciate you very much. Everyone, we’re signing off on the Overland Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in to us. We are getting out of here. Hope you have a wonderful week. And as always, when I end the show, I want you to look out for number one and never step in number two. See you.

I have added the show notes for you to look at in case you are interested!

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